GiftGirl might help some guys with girl gift ideas |
Being our 19th wedding anniversary this Friday, I’m in the shopping mode. Can’t write about what I’m doing for my wife as she reads this blog and would see the telegraph. Will say that I won’t be buying her anything through GiftGirl.
The idea behind GiftGirl is straightforward: just pick options from a dropdown menu like how much you want to pay, who the girl is (wife, long time girlfriend, friend, colleague, sister, mother, etc.) and you’re shown a selection of gifts that match. There are preset templates for things like ‘west coast girl’ and ‘bohemian girl’ — somebody please tell me what a bohemian girl is? I know Bohemian Rhapsody is a great Queen song that was in Wayne’s World.
Google informs that the definition of bohemian is: "unconventional in especially appearance and behavior" so answered my own question. Can safely say there aren’t many (any) bohemian girls that I know very well. Do you know any and, more importantly, would they be into any of the gifts.
Looking at the screenshot I’m not sure my wife would have wanted any of the things suggested above, but I’m wise enough after over 20 years together not to try and put any words in her mouth or thoughts in her head — ever. Not to get too sappy here, but one of the things I found appealing about her was that she couldn’t be programmed into some box-like algorithm like GiftGirl offers. Don’t think you could put me in a box service like this either.
Still, I’m guessing this type service will appeal to some folks. At least has to appeal to the webmaster who could tag all these gifts with his/her affiliate code.
Did this post make you go hmm?
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Thanks for taking a look at GiftGirl. I’m sorry your first impression wasn’t great. Can I entice you to go back and try inputting a few things about your wife and see if you get a better match? From the screenshot it looks like you left Her basics, type and style unchanged which probably accounts for the poor results! The presets are some examples to help you on your way, they’re certainly not all women. One thing to note, the “algorithm:” is actually a human…Jean and the GG team who are pretty decent at understanding what women like and are like. I’d like to throw a free subscription your way to try and convince you. Email me at mike at giftgirl.com if you’re interested.
Sorry I didn’t address you directly but I couldn’t find any About page.
Happy Anniversary,
Mike
ps Boho or Bohemian style is explained here if you’re curious
http://styleobserver.com/2008/06/24/beneath-bohemian-style/
Comment by Mike Pratt — September 19, 2008 @ 1:02 pm PST
Hi Mike - about page is here: http://www.makeyougohmm.com/about — for future reference most blogs use this convention
Byline should be showing pretty clearly, is it not?
My details are and have been since day one 5+ years ago on the homepage with my picture, email address, phone number and Skype. Plus there’s always Google. Doesn’t seem like you looked very hard.
You are welcome to contact me at the addy if you want and I’ll let my wife look at it again. She was far from impressed the first look, just FYI.
Comment by TDavid — September 19, 2008 @ 1:47 pm PST
Hi Mike - I know you emailed and seem willing to get a more detailed opinion about your site privately and that is ALWAYS appreciated, but I’d prefer our commentary stay out here in the public where other readers can follow along and (benefit) get involved if they are interested, if that’s cool with you.
Now back to your site though: nothing in any of the configurations I tried at giftgirl — and it goes beyond the screenshot and brief write-up in this post — she was interested in receiving. Service was a bust in my limited usage. If you think there is something both she and I missed that makes your service more accurate as a useful gift shopping tool, please feel free to forward that special access and I’ll give you the feedback here.
Amazon does much better figuring out what she likes — and might like through recommendations — based on what’s she’s purchased already. I realize you don’t have that data to work with unless it’s input somewhere, but a guy who is looking for a gift isn’t going to spend a lot of time at your service inputting a bunch of information to receive results when he can go to Amazon logged in as his wife and get ideas there
Sure, some basic quick info he’ll be glad to do, but he’s not going to spend too much time inputting copious amounts of data for you to send to “Jean and the GG” team to try and match up with items for him to buy.
Again if you do indeed have some special access or some sort of configuration option we didn’t try that will work better, please, I encourage you to share and I’ll be happy to continue to add to this thread our findings and feedback.
Thank you for taking time to comment.
Comment by TDavid — September 19, 2008 @ 5:19 pm PST
TDavid,
I am assuming by configurations, you mean moving the Style sliders around, various check boxes in her Type, etc. If after that none of the unlimited combinations yields anything she’d like then you are absolutely correct and the site is, indeed worthless to you. There are no hidden “special” features. IMHO logging in as my wife just to see what she has bought doesn’t tell me much. Not sure what you refer to by the “copious” amounts of data aspect. The only thing you input is right there on the front page. We don’t purport to have every single women figured out and clearly your wife is remarkably unique. God Bless You! If you look at my wife’s Amazon list you will find many useful things she has bought but none would qualify as gift material so I get no help there and i’d argue Amazon does a terrible job figuring out what she likes. Amazon only shows you similar items.
What would really be useful would be to know what you l=wife is like and what kinds of things she likes to get to add to the intelligence of the process. Is she more modern or traditional, conservative of funky? You get the idea. None of us guys knows everything about what’s out there (as evidenced by your complete lack of understanding abou tthe hottest trend in women’s looks right now…Boho or Bohemian.
I would have hoped that you would have applauded the effort and tried to help. Our research certainly confirmed what Jean intuitively knew…that guys are definitely seeking help on “what” not “where” to buy and the web does a poor job and makes them do too much work. This tries to solve that problem. That’s all.
Comment by Mike Pratt — September 19, 2008 @ 6:06 pm PST
Hi Mike,
I continue to enjoy the dialogue, thank you, but …
What’s the deal with not being able to figure out my name by now? It’s TDavid or TD for short. My parents taught me it was polite to properly use people’s names, but you don’t seem to feel like doing that with me. Why not? I corrected you by email and just now edited the WRONG name you used in your comment reply. Are you doing this on purpose or what? Come on.
Now back to the site/service.
Before this week I had no idea what your service was nor who you were. I came to your site, tried to apply GiftGirl to a real world scenario and make it useful for a buying decision. Trust me if it had been, I’d have probably bought something recommended. I’d like to think this is in the wheelhouse from a prospective customer standpoint, yes/no?
BTW, I wasn’t talking about the list function at Amazon, was talking about the personalized recommended items. For example the Amazon recommended items for music (AmazonMP3) for me lists a lot of music that I like. Is it similar? Yes. Is that useful? Yes. Some of it I already own, yes, but some of it I don’t. My wife would be able to look — and vice versa — to match up music tastes. That’s just one example and sorry if it hurts feelings, but it’s a lot more accurate than anything I saw through GiftGirl applied to my wife’s case as a gift. And I don’t have to choose from any dropdown menus, I only need walk five feet and use her computer from where I’m typing this. Faster and more accurate win every time.
“I would have hoped that you would have applauded the effort and tried to help.”
Sorry, I do not applaud effort on the web for something that doesn’t work in my testing. Bottom line: if Jean/GG had suggested something that my wife would have liked as a gift, it works. If it doesn’t, then it doesn’t. Period. End of story.
Now, I don’t know how long you’ve been married, Mike, but perhaps an age range in GG would be another useful criteria to have people enter in? Perhaps target people who don’t know people that well or as long and need a service like GG to give them some possible gift ideas? And in cases where people have been married longer, perhaps suggest that service may not be as useful? Or maybe that’s just common sense …
Comment by TDavid — September 19, 2008 @ 10:31 pm PST
Oh and as for the comment about there being nothing more for me to see, Mike? You wrote this in your first comment above: “I’d like to throw a free subscription your way to try and convince you.”
What is the subscription to/for if there is nothing else to see than what’s on the page?
Comment by TDavid — September 19, 2008 @ 10:39 pm PST
Mike,
I’m Td’s wife and I went to your site and did fill out the profile and I just don’t see where any of the suggested items would be something that if bought for me as a gift I would like. It suggested multiple floral arrangements and honestly I would prefer a green plant over flowers, it suggested gourmet chocolates and I would rather have ghiradelli chocolates, or reese’s peanut butter cups, not some expensive fancy candy. As for the jewelry suggestions I don’t even wear a wedding ring and am highly picky about what other jewelry I wear.
One very irritating thing I noticed while doing the profile was the fact that the dress size only goes up to 16, not that I persoanlly need bigger than that but there are many people that do. What happens to the larger girls, it appears that your service is limited and thats not a good thing. A few suggestions would be maybe expand on the profile a bit, favorite color, favorite movie, that kind of stuff, if you’re going to charge a subscription fee then expand on the profile maybe that will help with finding an acceptable gift. One of my more favorite gifts in the past was a set of candles in my favorite color. Also I love cool new kitchen gadgets but nothing else for the house really.
With a bit of tweaking I think this could be a useful site for some. I am a very simple, practical girl thats likes simple things and shopping at basic stores, ie Target, Bed,Bath and Beyond, WalMart, Old Navy, Ross, I don’t care much for name brands and really don’t want nor need to shop or get gifts from exclusive or expensive stores. I would be just as happy with a gift basket with stuff from the dollar store. I am a little unique in the fact that I can afford to buy more expensive I just prefer not to, if there’s something I want and its more than I want to spend I wait until a sale comes along or I do without. The best gift in the world to me is anything handmade.
Good luck with your service.
Comment by Kara — September 20, 2008 @ 7:45 am PST
Kara,
Thanks for your feedback. I realize how difficult it will be to try to get it right with every type of Girl, and please every single person. The Girls I target definitely like the finer things in life. I doubt I will ever carry items from Walmart, but I do have stuff from Old Navy. I would like to comment on a couple of your points. I do carry items for plus size Girls - Rachel Pally tops & overcoats from Nordstrom. I always have the curvy Girls in mind, two of my sisters are plus-size. In fact, I wrote a post on plus-size clothing and how it’s an area that needs designer attention. http://styleobserver.com/2008/01/31/rachel-pally-for-plus-size/ I received push-back from web-designers on how high to go up in size. It is something I plan on changing! To your point on expensive chocolate - I include the unique chocolates that not everyone might know about. However, I already have Ghiradelli on the site! I love the drugstore candy as well (KitKat is my weakness) - that is why I have baskets from Dylan’s that are filled with movie theater type candy. If you want someone to buy you a bag of Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups, then they don’t need my site to do it. It’s clear you were turned off by my site from the start, and I don’t mind that. There are bound to be people who don’t embrace it, but in the words of my son “don’t yuck another person’s yum”. I’m sorry the site didn’t work for you, and I appreciate your feedback.
Comment by Jean V. Pratt — September 20, 2008 @ 8:45 am PST
“The Girls I target definitely like the finer things in life.”
And yet next to your face (?) on the website, Jean, it says: “Tell me about the girl, I’ll tell you what to get her.” - Jean Vouté Pratt
Maybe this should more accurately read: “Tell me about the girl that likes the finer things in life, I’ll tell you what to get her.”
Comment by TDavid — September 20, 2008 @ 9:10 am PST
And who says that something handmade doesn’t constitute the “finer things in life” anyway? Pretty subjective stuff, really.
I think a site like Etsy would be more up Kara’s alley. Etsy is a very popular website that clearly fits a specific niche. This doesn’t mean that GG couldn’t do the same for the high society types. I didn’t get the snobby vibe when I first saw the site, but am getting that now.
Comment by TDavid — September 20, 2008 @ 9:17 am PST
Hmmm… maybe you’re right. Or, those who don’t find anything could simply not subscribe.
Comment by Jean V. Pratt — September 20, 2008 @ 9:30 am PST
“Finer” doesn’t imply cost. I have items at every price point. Etsy sounds like a great fit for your wife. I find your argumentative nature amusing! Hmm…”snobby”… I’m sensing a chip on your shoulder. LOL
Comment by Jean V. Pratt — September 20, 2008 @ 9:39 am PST
TD asked me to take a look at the site, and I can tell you that it’s not exactly for “every girl”. There’s a specific mold and type that this is offered to and it actually doesn’t fit your average person. Well, at least definitely not here in the South it doesn’t. Having purchased many gifts for many women in my life, I can say that I’ve done a lot of studying and observation of what they like/want before I go buy the gift. The preset profiles actually show what type of people the website is going for which isn’t bad… it’s just not for everyone. And there shouldn’t be the assumption that it’d work for even most women.
Here’s the underlying issue with this. First page, it puts light blue boxes with white ribbon. Anyone that has done expensive jewelry shopping can see it’s insinuating Tiffany’s brand. Nothing wrong with that. But if you keep looking at the gift choices, you’ll find that it’s geared more towards extroverts. Those that like to go shopping for clothes, shoes, or jewelry (yes, there are women out there that don’t like this as much and I know it’s actually a larger percentage that most think). Even for the 0-200 range, I was checking out what exactly the gifts were and one of them for “friends” was some Vera Wang orchids from FTD. Now, while I find that absolutely gorgeous, it takes a totally different person to actually (1) know who Vera Wang is and (2) actually appreciate that it’s Vera Wang at all. And for those that might not know, Vera Wang is a pretty famous designer. She did wedding dresses for a time that were absolutely gorgeous. But I digress.
I can say that if your lowest price range is going for 0-200, then you’ve even outdone Tiffany’s since their gifts run lowest at about $100. As a guy, yes, I’ve also purchased there too. In fact for my darling fiancee. But the point is that this doesn’t necessarily even fit big city girls. It might fit my sister, but definitely not my mother. I know plenty of friends right there in Manhattan that would probably scoff at the gift choices this site provided. And plenty that would adore them. I like the idea of the site, but even if it caters to slightly better off folks (which by the higher ticket items, it seems to) it doesn’t seem to quite have it right yet to extend the types. Again, I’m making the assumption that the current “preset” styles are done by Jean and crew that actually are their own lifestyles, which would make a lot more sense. But even what designers perceive to be reality, isn’t so much realism. It’s like trying to wear a Gaultier out in public. There’s not too much for older women either. The types that are not size 0-4. Middle-aged/older women have a totally different style too there.
Oh, and get books. Books are good. Breakfast in bed kits. Let me know if you need more help with it, maybe I could consult. lol. Maybe GiftLady.com for the older women? lol. In any case, it’s a good idea, but there just doesn’t seem to be the variety. And in case you find that it’s all coming from one sided, I asked my fiancee to take a glimpse of the site. She’s the one that was asking for more variety since she likes to sip coffee and read.
All the best with the site, and if you want more suggestions, feel free to ask here or contact TD further for my information since unlike him, I don’t post mine out there. lol.
Comment by darkmoon — September 20, 2008 @ 10:10 am PST
Also to note: TD, if you read Jean’s bio on styleobserver, you’ll understand completely why those gifts are chosen in that fashion. She sounds not only like a Manhattan girl at heart, but she was born into the fashion world. I don’t find it snobby as much as Jean does run the show for say… someone that shops at Saks would buy. I understand her gift choices completely. But the biggest reality check here and also mistake would be to think that every girl thinks like Jean. Gift choicing is more dependent on personality types, and so far the choices for “Adventure Girl” to “Bohemian Girl” all fit the same personality type. So basically you have a single group that likes all those things, but they ignore the fact that overall, most women are pretty ordinary, not all shop, and sizes probably range more like from 6-12.
Since my latest marketing thing for my firm is niche marketing, I’ve been toying with super-niches like EGA fashion. I don’t expect Jean’s site at all to go in that direction, but hers seems to follow in more mainstream upper end. To bring it down to a more average feel, I think there needs to be a little more study done at what could be used for the more average woman. Heck, let’s bridge the gap here. Forget Old Navy. What about Christopher Banks? Or Coldwater Creek? That type of clothing is a different style and personality type, but it’s definitely not the young and hip (eg. Old Navy). Personally I would have went with Buckle, or A&F for the lower end myself, but that’s just me.
Again, it’s a good idea, but it needs to be flushed out more. Think outside the box. Too constrained to Manhattan and fashion lifestyle.
Comment by darkmoon — September 20, 2008 @ 10:27 am PST
darkmoon - thank you for weighing in. GiftGirl’s CTO, Mike, indicated by email (despite me asking him to keep the commentary out here where all could see):
I would think people who are in newer relationships would seem to benefit more from a service like GiftGirl. So far from the independent polling I’ve done, admittedly at a much smaller level and only with people I know (label this statistical insignificance if you must), not random strangers, this indeed isn’t the case at all.
Comment by TDavid — September 20, 2008 @ 10:41 am PST
I would agree with that statement. “Most” men? Are not really good at getting gifts for women. There’s actually a really simple reason for that, but most men wouldn’t care to actually share it. Reason behind this? They’re not exactly observant with their surroundings, nor their women. Thus, time (and marriage) has nothing to do with it. Why does this have an effect on everything? Because as a young man, I couldn’t understand women, so I started reading about why women think the way they do. At the same time, I started to observe friends, family, and such as how they reacted and made notes accordingly. With those personal experiences in play, I can tell you that I remember to pick out gifts that my girl will mention perhaps once or so months ago.
Make a note. Jot it down. If they say it twice, it must be something they like. Pay attention to make sure they don’t already get it over time. The entire thing is about how to connect. So the service would indeed work, but I think they’re building a wall around themselves if they’re not going after niche.
Comment by darkmoon — September 20, 2008 @ 11:20 am PST
Oops. I just realized I wrote “flushed out more”… haha. I meant “fleshed out more”. My bad.
Comment by darkmoon — September 20, 2008 @ 11:21 am PST
That might be the case darkmoon, but I’m not buying the ‘most men’ do this or that broad brush painting. Not from a sampling of 10,000 — nor my much more ridiculous small sampling — when there are how many men on this earth? Billions.
We need to hear from some GG fans. Check out self-admitted fan of the site Josh Lowensohn from CNET describing GiftGirl (emphasis mine):
Maybe this is another big reason why the site isn’t working for me, but works for others like Josh, I’m not “unimaginative.” I don’t get guys buying gifts for the ladies that mean the world to them and not putting any serious thought into it. I’m not saying these men don’t exist, I’m sure they do, but question how many of them if they are truly unimaginative would be motivated to seek out a website, much less paying for Jean’s $200 consultation to help them find a gift.
Technical error at GiftGirl
BTW, Mike/Jean - probably want to get somebody post haste on the GetGirl don’ts page listed as the top result in Google. Page is returning server errors which is ironic considering the motto “what to get / where to get it” - see this screenshot.
Comment by TDavid — September 20, 2008 @ 11:42 am PST
lol. Ah. I’ll give you a good clue where to find these types of men, TD. Go to any college campus, and reap the benefits of Greek row. lol. Why do I know this? I belonged to the Greeks for my first two years of collegiate life. And most of those guys (when they were only with guys) could tell you some stories. Very interesting stories. Non-imaginative, non that creative either. Of course, the other side of the coin is that not many of these people tried their luck at any sort of art or creative type ventures. But yeah, they do exist and they’re definitely a large majority of them.
In fact, I’d venture even as far as to say the huge sports junkies in general? And their wives are not? Probably miss the ball a lot when it comes to truly meaningful gifts.
Comment by darkmoon — September 20, 2008 @ 11:54 am PST
With that note, I’m going to go out shopping with my girl. She wants something, and I’m in my “observance” mode.
Comment by darkmoon — September 20, 2008 @ 11:55 am PST
Wow. I just got back to read all the latest and I am amazed on so many levels. Darkmoon, your comments are appreciated, constructive and not full of arrogance and sarcasm. Thank You. In our 1st version (out in Oct ‘07), we had a section called Collections (by far the most popular) which we transformed into Preset Profiles. I think you’re spot on in that they aren’t getting it right. Something’s wrong with the algorithm and it needs tweaking. I’m on it. TD - It’s unfortunate that we aren’t all full of imagination like you are. While I like to think of myself as “imaginative”, I also know that I downright stink at figuring out what Jean wants. Sure she could tell me what she wants but that defeats the purpose. BTW that really is Jean’s picture (the ? you put was uncalled for). As for you both thinking it’s a Manhattan & fashion based site, I have to disagree. Yes, there’s fashion (I’ll get to that in a sec) but there’s all sorts of stuff that appeals to all parts of the country. The geographic diversity of our subscribers attests to that. As for “finer” you are stuck on it being expensive. Etsy has lots of things that fall under “finer” as well so don’t pigeon hole her there. What’s the opposite of “finer”? Likes the crappier things in life? There are plenty of high quality , finer things in the 0-$200 range. Of course, Kara likes nothing there but that’s cool. There’s 6 billion folks to please on this planet. I get it. You seem to imply that if any of us need help then we’re idiots and should be punished because we’re not as good as you are in the act of gift getting. Jean means the world to me so I guess I’m doomed if I put serious thought into the process and still come up with a lousy idea. In our pols, we also found that women are dying to get things like shoes and bags an dresses from guys but they almost never do. And we’re not always talking expensive either. The reason they don’t though is twofold. 1. They usually didn’t realize that women wanted that from them and 2. They have no clue where to start. We’re trying to solve that problem. GG has some bugs and they definitely need addressing. Tell me who else is solving the dilemma of “I would like to buy my wife a nice pair of shoes or bag for her birthday but I don’t know where to start”? Your Amazon list?
As for the $200 consultation. Dirt cheap compared to what personal shoppers and other consultants charge. Consultations of all sorts are available for much more on the web so be careful in your sweeping judgment that the “unimaginative” would not go there. How ’bout the guys who just need help and want to do better this time? Morons to you I suppose.
Jean is the least snobby person I know. She puts herself out there to help in any way possible, as evidenced by the loyal following of women across the country on her style site http://styleobserver.com. I guaranty she is not filling this site with stuff only she wants. So much of the things in here are not “her”. She has been doing this offline for years for women of all types and personalities and I can promise you that the response is most often “Wow, she got me to a “T”. It’s a tall order to translate that skill set perfectly to an algorithm, but it’s always good to have guys like TD keep you grounded with his sincerity, thoughtfulness and constructive criticism.
GG tries to focus on ideas that can more accurately be called “anchor” gifts. ie the main gift that you’d give. In the case where she includes something like the blender or Dyson, Jean points out that you’re at risk if the Dyson is deemed your “anchor” gift. Now I know that some girls are dying to receive a vacuum cleaner for their birthday and I don’t want to yuk their yum, but we have tons of emails from girls out there glad that with GG, there’s at least a chance that they won’t get an appliance this time. Yes that’s our audience. And we want to continually add to the offerings, 1 quality gift at a time. Darkmoon, I know your fiance likes to sip coffee and read and looks like we don’t have that covered but I would hazard a guess that there’s much more to her than that and hopefully the site can suggest some things she also may be into.
Keep the ideas coming everyone. Thank you all.
Mike
PS - TD - let me know when the link to your About page works. I swear to you I can’t find a live link anywhere
Comment by Mike Pratt — September 20, 2008 @ 2:27 pm PST
TD - Thanks for pointing out the error. It’s actually a cached page from the old site. I imagine Goggle has not indexed the new site yet so that’s why that came up
Comment by Mike Pratt — September 20, 2008 @ 2:30 pm PST
lol. Mike, just wanted you to know that I don’t find it as much a “Manhattan” and fashion lifestyle as much as a personality type that can fit those preset styles. While I do get what you’re trying to do, since there are men out there that just “don’t get it” when it comes to gifts, I also think that unless you’re pushing for a specific type of woman, those gifts only fit a type. Like I said before, a lot of this is aimed at women that have a more extroverted life and there are things that I know that my fiancee would definitely enjoy. But the preset lists don’t really help it out, and if I was one of the “clueless” then I wouldn’t have much of a chance at picking out the right things with the current presets. I think that’s what I was getting at before.
Like you’ve said also, the algorithms need some work. The gifts are nice, but I think there needs to be a bit more diversity to actually pinpoint which personality type.
My fiancee also said that it’s a really cool idea (which I believe so too, and I know TD does… he’s not giving you guys are a hard time, but just giving a different perspective - such is the way of text). She said what would really help you guys out is something maybe that has a questionaire to pinpoint the personality type. Like, Does your girl like to go out to the movies, or rent a movie? Does she like to go to a bookstore or go out to night clubs? That would give actually help the guys pinpoint the right type of personality of their girl instead of picking and choosing the personality. From there, obviously the gifts would be diversified more towards those personalities.
The reasoning for the questions is that most guys can answer the simple questions but might not know exactly which personality type is what. Truthfully, there wasn’t anything that defined the presets at all, without myself going to click on the styleobserver.com link for Bohemian to see what exactly the perspective was to make a educated assessment. That would help out too. But back to the questioning. If the guy can’t even answer simple questions for the girl (outside of the fact that it’s a new girlfriend or friend that you don’t know things about so then they’d probably be given a generalized gift selection) then those men probably…. well… let’s just say they probably sleep on the couch “a WHOLE LOT”.
I think that quality of goods from this site is worthwhile to note, since you don’t want to be pointing guys to … Walmart type goods. Not exactly the greatest impression. But on the flip side of things, like I said before….. my girl would appreciate orchids from FTD just as much as she’d appreciate Vera Wang orchids. The type that would be like… “oooo…. Vera Wang orchids!” is a different type of personality and that’s what you have set up currently. Need to fine tune a bit more for those people that are a bit more… shall we say, quiet and not so “clubby”. I’m not really sure how else to phrase it, but I think you get the gist of the matter.
I agree with the Dyson comment. This is more for “romantic” type gifts. At least that seems to be the point of it. I’d also push for perhaps some sort of thing with say… spa treatment or gift certs for like pedicures and manicures and the like. I know that’s still a certain type, but it seems to fit well with this site.
Again, need some work on older women too and more diversified, but I think the site itself definitely helps out the legions of clueless guys out there with some point of reference to start from. From that perspective, I’m definitely appreciative of someone at least attempting to help those poor guys. But do also remember that there are women out there that would like to be included in this, and “everyone” is pretty inclusive term. Currently, it’s slightly exclusive when it comes to gift selections versus personality types. That’s where a lot of the fine tuning and such works. Best of luck with it. I’m sure if you guys want more feedback and there’s more things going on with the site, we’ll be happy to provide what we think.
Comment by darkmoon — September 20, 2008 @ 8:14 pm PST
Darkmoon - Thank you again for taking the time to comment so much! We really appreciate it. It’s now dawning on us that the presets are really throwing you guys off track. They are really just a starting place if the guy/girl isn’t sure where to start. In your case I’d highly recommend starting from scratch and building her personality and style type right in. When you do that, age is required an therefor taken into account. Every gift is identified for age appropriateness as well. In fact every gift has each attribute manually set. So you questions of bookstore or clubs are actually accounted for , in many respects. We didn’t want to go too overboard…eHarmony’s questionnaire is 30 pages! So we have age, sizes, 10 personality factors and ten style sliders..to set the degree of traditional vs modern, for example.
I’d like you to be able to explore the entire site’s offerings. Your fiancee can be added to your account as a guest and go in and tweak her own profile and then you can both add ideas to it. Send me an email at mike at giftgirl.com and I’ll set you up.
PS - If TD wasn;t giving us a hard time then he sure has a funny way of showing it…insults and all
Comment by Mike Pratt — September 20, 2008 @ 8:43 pm PST
Mike:
First, having known TD for a long time, just as you’re defensive how TD is towards this site and Jean, I am with my friend. From what I can tell, he’s just speaking his mind and from his perspective it is “snobby” and all. Truthfully, I can’t say that I blame him since depending on the woman, it is still geared towards a certain type (and until anyone there can acknowledge that fact, there’s always going to be disagreement on what, and which gifts there are and should be). The stuff about Jean (and I don’t know her as you do so bear in mind that we all just see what we read) is that she understands fashion and she knows how to shop. And that she’s given pointers on Access Hollywood on how to dress like “Sex in the City” for less. But like I’ve pointed out before? The site does seem more geared towards women that would enjoy “Sex in the City”. That’s the crux of what’s going on here. So if it’s not, I’d be curious why the selection of gifts still fit well into … well, say the characters in that show (yes, I’ve watched it. lol). Perhaps the point is that there isn’t enough out there to throw some curve balls at some. But I’d like to see GG try. I mean, what really do you have to lose to give “more” choices?
In actually using this product though after looking through both things, I have to determine that you’ve still missed the mark. Why? Here’s how. First, I like your personality factors (although I still think the presets are off). That’s great. Keep the entire right side, but ONLY if you’re a woman. That entire customization was built by a woman, for a woman (I don’t know who built the thing technically speaking, but the idea behind it is definitely a feminine one). This is why I think that the mark is missed. If you’re going after the “clueless” guys, then you have to realize that these are the same men that probably don’t know what size of dress their girls are (and truthfully, I wouldn’t have them snooping if they’re new). Just go on any Royal Caribbean cruise and watch the Marriage show to understand this. It’s like asking a guy to buy a bra for his wife. I bet you $100 that most guys really stink at it, mainly because there’s a thought of what a guy wants and what the girl actually wears. Also having been in chat rooms a long, long time, I can pick out men that “pretend to be” women because of how they act. This is pertinent since it gives you an idea of what type of guys you’re dealing with.
So here’s the thought. If you’re doing the “myself” then I’d leave it as such. If you’re doing it for men? Unless you’re metrosexual, I wouldn’t use what you have. Too many choices, too many options. Men are very much straight black or white. Yes or no. This answer or that answer. Has to do with how we’re wired. NO SLIDERS. Seriously. If you don’t understand why I’m going here, read Dr. John Gray’s books or anything dealing with relationships and how women think versus men thinking. While it’s a generalization, I think it would be very applicable.
Second. Any guy will use the presets before they bother with any customization. Again, that’s a user interface issue being that it’s not geared towards the right target market. Why is this? We (as men) take the easy way before the hard. Truthfully, I would imagine that if you did gender studies you’d find that women would tend to customize more and men would tend to use presets more.
Third. I did try to grandmother the presets. I still don’t think there’s enough diversification in gifts. Expand more. Think outside the box. I think the constraints currently is that you keep answering our questions with…. “well this is how you should be thinking…” rather than… “hey, these people aren’t getting it, what are we doing incorrectly?” Having graduated computer science a long time ago, I can tell you something I learned from a good friend of mine. When you create an application, you want to make it as easy to use that even the most illogical user could use it. It’s not about “training” as much as … we didn’t account for this fact. Why? In my current position for my company, I’m not only the strategy officer, but I’m also maintained testing positions because that tells me that if I can’t think outside my own constraints then I’ll never learn why users are doing what they do.
While I’m happy to help you test your product and tweak it, no offense but I don’t really have any desire to create an account. Mainly because I’ve learned over the years how to buy gifts for women and developed my own methods and strategies. Not exactly rocket science, mind you but everything I’ve told you comes directly from trial and error and personal experience. It’s not that TD and I are any different, but I do believe that we’ve learned to know and acknowledge our women and their wants and needs. It sounds like GG is trying to do the same for men out there, but I don’t think it’s quite on target. It might be meeting its mark, but I’m thinking more of…. you’re at your 70% mark and you have potential to be a lot more.
Oh, one last thing. If TD was throwing insults your way, it wouldn’t be implied. He’ll directly tell you, just as I would. He just tells it as he sees it, and so far I haven’t really read anything in comments that really throws off like an insult by any means. Not when I know what one would look like coming from him. And as far as I know, he’s a straight shooter, not one that writes in subtle backstabbing sorts of ways. But take it as you will.
Comment by darkmoon — September 20, 2008 @ 9:48 pm PST
Dang. I’ve written so much on this topic here, that maybe I should talk about it in a post. *laugh* Too bad Sterling isn’t reading this.
Comment by darkmoon — September 20, 2008 @ 9:49 pm PST
Was going through your site, and I realized another thing. I would have loved this site in high school, but it wasn’t exactly geared in that age group. I was looking for if there was something to that effect, but no-go there. If it’s there, then it needs to be made more apparent. Perhaps a growth/expansion idea?
Also, in the FAQ, it says here:
“Founder Jean Vouté Pratt is the GiftGirl. She knows what your girl likes.”
I think that if there’s any contention, I’d definitely contend with this. Jean, while very knowledgeable, doesn’t know what my girl likes, and doesn’t for Kara. If people are going to call your site out, then they would contend this point because it’s an absolute. And if there’s anything that anyone’s taught me over the years and TD has reminded me of it, it’s never deal in absolutes. You’ll fail absolutely in trying to argue that point. I personally would probably tone it down some there, and let the site itself speak for itself. If it indeed does do the correct job, then do that. If it doesn’t, then find out why, find out if this fits your target audience and re-work the solution set.
Truthfully, I can tell you that there’s one thing that I’ve learned over the years, and it’s that negative criticism is the best you can ever get. Why? Because those people are telling you what you need to fix. People that love your product, might actually tell you that they do, but overall they don’t tell you what could be better. If your product isn’t working for certain people, maybe it’s not time for you to evaluate if you should expand your market to include those types of people. But take that into account for growth since you never want to alienate customer base. One of the few tactics that large businesses do so poorly and small businesses do so well.
Comment by darkmoon — September 20, 2008 @ 10:09 pm PST
Darkmoon - Please don’t take any explanations on my part as defensive but some of the earlier commentary truly led us to believe that we were talking about different things and I wanted to make sure we were on the same page. Your feedback is without doubt, the best we have received from anyone, period, and not only do we thank you but we agree with much of what you point out. The site was actually designed by men, not women. The slider concept was designed by men and until you, the response has been positive. Along the lines of, “it’s simple, I get it.” But in no way do I expect everyone to feel that way. Until the presets truly reflect the girl they are intended to be, then that’s broken and yes, the more in depth customization tends to be a hit with the girls as well, which is why they like to customize themselves, if for the benefit of their guy. TD himself likened that to the Amazon concept. Ironic that he suggested actually logging in to your girl’s Amazon account to sneak a look at her list. My main fear right now is that, given the foreign territory this kind of site treads, the user experience is still not foolproof. As for choices, Jean is adding new stuff every day and we are definitely of the belief that more is better and diversification is better. I hope you don’t think we’re arguing that the selection is complete. I get where you’re going with the clueless men thing and yes, I have read Gray’s book. That crowd that only wants to buy their wife the trashy stuff, as you imply, may not be reachable but the non-metrosexuals that don’t share your skill set in buying gifts, I think, still want to get their wives something nice and have written us that the site, while not perfect, goes a long way to try and help that problem. This is from guys from Montana, not Manhattan.
We’re not trying to say “this is how you should be thinking”, I promise you. I love the negative criticism and have made copious notes on how to improve based on the things you have written, knowing that I can’t be all things to all people at the same time. An example of that is the line about Jean you point out “she knows what your girl likes” I suppose we’d have just as much a problem with “she probably knows what your girl likes” or “she knows what most girls like” in that some might take it as a lack of confidence or whatever. Who knows. She may actually know what Kara likes but didn’t ask the right questions in the space allowed, a failing of the site.
I appreciate the 70% mark! I was thinking less!
I’m definitely no rocket scientist as I will always need a service like this. I’m not great at figuring out what she really wants. That doesn’t mean I don’t know here…I can easily fill out every slider and check box and get her spot on. What I can’t do is tell you what a traditional dress is or a modern bag or any of the other non-fashion things that the site presents that would be a propos for her. Given your ability to do so, the site is definitely a waste of time for you.
I am deeply appreciative for all the time you have taken to be constructive. Thanks.
As for TD. There was nothing implied. I was sincerer in pointing out (trying to be helpful and not snide) that I couldn’t find his name because the link to the About page was broken. It still is - see for yourself. I was told “for future reference most blogs use this convention - you think?) and that I clearly didn’t look very hard and chided me for not using Google. Finally, there was an advertisement covering up his bio section. So, because I apologized for not personalizing the response, that was what I get in return. Not sure what set him off so quickly. maybe he thought I was going at him. I wasn’t , I was trying to help. I apparently also set him off by asking his name. TDavid seemed like a username, not the only name he has (I would venture yours isn’t Darkmoon
- If you don’t feel like revealing then state as much, don’t rip me a new one for not “figuring out my name by now” What? I don’t know why this can’t stay on topic.
In the end, I hope we’re able to address the concerns you all brought up. We’ve poured too much of our own sweat equity and personal savings into building this not to.
Regards,
Mike
Comment by Mike Pratt — September 21, 2008 @ 7:49 am PST
Mike:
Not really sure what you’re talking about with TD’s about section. It’s on the front page, right on the top left corner. That’s a picture of him, with phone and such. Been that way for over five years with email, phone, all that. If you go to makeyougohmm.com/about, it also exists. As far as it goes, like I’ve said before, I’ve been on the Internet for a long long time. Longer than most, since I had a… hmm.. different fascination at the time. If the commentary from TD put you on the defensive (of which I didn’t find anything really ugly about) that might be something you need to look into as far as dealing with. As far as names go, it might be good to remember that just because you offer your name out doesn’t mean that everyone else does. Too many people try to call TD by a name, not realizing that it’s no different than my “darkmoon” pseudonym. It’s also part of advertising on the Internet. No offense at all, but I personally found the reactions to his name kind of noobish. It’s no different than if I had my username as JohnDoe. I would seriously hope that people didn’t make it a point to start calling me “John”. I don’t know how there’s an advertisement covering his bio section since makeyougohmm has never had overlay ads and currently in looking at the site, I haven’t seen any in any of the browsers or OSes I’ve looked at the site in. Perhaps your DNS was poisoned? Just out of curiosity since that’s not a good sign that there’s “ads” where there hasn’t been.
Again, I digress for the matter at hand that I actually wish to talk about.
Also, the part about Amazon: I think you’ve missed the point entirely. Amazon’s wishlist is public. Thus, he’s saying that if your girl has a wishlist, then it’d fit the bill to go to Amazon, and look at the wishlist. Here’s where I would say that you’re judging his answers without understanding the technology completely if I read your comment correctly. There would be no logging in, and the shopping list on Amazon is different from the wishlist. Also, while I agree with the recommendations being junk somewhat, I have to say that from a wishlist perspective, it’s pretty much right on. Basically because those are things that the user wants. Obviously, if the user doesn’t have a wishlist, then you’re SOL again.
I understand the whole sweat equity thing. That’s a part of business, no matter what type. I also appreciate direct communication with people involved. That’s good to know that there’s an ear out there listening for feedback. If you’ve read Dr. Gray’s books (lol, and here I thought I was one of the few), I wouldn’t categorize yourself as one of the clueless. Heck, you’ve sought out to create a niche for something that you wanted. I think that’s pretty impressive. I STILL think that you’re missing the mark with the “clueless” without going into a much more simple UI though. This goes back to the relationship books. Men are tunnel visioned. Hunter aspect. Beer, sports, you can get ticked off at your buddy, but yet have a drink afterwards. Women are a lot more complex. Subtlety is one of their things that men never pick up on. The whole gatherer part of it. While a lot of people would find this gender biased, sociology plays a big part into how you design interfaces for men, women, or both. So I’d actually simplify further, perhaps with the option of making it more advanced.
As far as most gift giving is concerned, I would venture to guess that most men don’t spend enough time with their women. I’m talking about… the type of going to the mall, and understanding why she picks certain styles and if it fits her, and how to include your say into it. Too many husbands, boyfriends, etc. just stand there bored out of their minds instead of paying attention to very important details that you can pick up, jot down.. notes if you must, where it’d help not only with the relationship because she believes that you care enough to actually go through the trouble of learning how, but it’s also something to note for keeping relationships. It’s the little things that matter, the surprise gifts that she had looked at but couldn’t stand paying the money for so she put it back, and you got it for her six months later. That type of thing. I’m not really sure how GG can roll this part into it, but I think that’s the lacking part.
Now this is going into more technical matters, but if you do have a good source of women that are using the site, why not use them as your “advice”? This is what I mean by that. The point is to buy gifts for certain types of women, and the guy is out in his own little world, right? So if you have women customizing and …. say marking which gifts she likes, then I’d track those. Then with that, you can use your userbase to tweak the presets since that would not only give you diversity, but it can tell you what works, what doesn’t… and everything doesn’t fall on Jean’s shoulders. She just picks the initial anchors, and lets the userbase redefine what the presets are/want/etc. And not having looked at what you guys are doing, I still think that it’d be worth your while to run affiliate links. Just do it for all of the gifts that you can get. Being unbiased is great, and if you can’t find an affiliate program, then so what… link the site. But, I think that not capitalizing on such a crucial part is missing out on a large chunk of money that you could be making.
In any case, let me know. And seriously, I can’t stress enough to leave the whole defensive attitude with TD alone. Let me put it this way: if my buddy didn’t ask me to come take a look at your site, you would have missed out on a lot of things I’d imagine as far as feedback. And nothing I’ve said really is anything new, just rephrasing what both he and Kara have said. I just like to get way more involved personally. And lastly? If you were indeed looking for someone’s contact information (again, no offense intended here) but I would wonder why you didn’t Google the person. Both his site and name, and mine rank high in Google. It’s not difficult to track down a person these days on the Internet if you want their contact information.
All in all, great idea and I look forward to seeing if any of the things I’ve spoken about comes into fruition. The entire point of being able to converse on a blog, and such is that the conversation is most important and hopefully when one person wins, everyone wins. Need to always have those extra pair of eyes on the product that think critically. In any case, all the best on your product. Hope it works out and feel free to throw more questions/concerns here. I’m sure someone will respond to it.
Regards,
Ben
Comment by darkmoon — September 21, 2008 @ 8:56 am PST
I gave a quick spin. I chose “New York City girl” for my wife, and the pictures it came up with were pretty close to the things she likes. I tried tweaking the profile, but when I went to save and it wanted birthday and name, I decided to cancel. after that, the site froze up.
It looks like it could be a good service, but they need to work on usability, and they need to make sure that the anonymous trial experience is non-threatening.
Comment by Sterling Camden — September 21, 2008 @ 12:40 pm PST
Now I’m reading it, darkmoon!
Comment by Sterling Camden — September 21, 2008 @ 12:41 pm PST
Ben,
A final thanks for everything from you, TD, Kara, et al. We really appreciate the thought that went into all your comments and are working hard to fix things.
Comment by Mike Pratt — September 21, 2008 @ 12:46 pm PST
Know what? We need a GiftDude site. haha. Just flood it with plasma tvs.
Comment by darkmoon — September 21, 2008 @ 7:49 pm PST
New York Dude: plasma TV
Redneck Dude: plasma TV
Geek Dude: plasma TV
Old Dude: plasma TV
Young Dude: plasma TV
Surfer Dude: plasma TV
Blogger Dude: plasma TV
Comment by Sterling Camden — September 22, 2008 @ 9:59 am PST
Husband of GG Dude: plasma TV
Comment by Mike Pratt — September 22, 2008 @ 10:01 am PST
Rich Dude: throw out old model of plasma TV, get 102″ plasma tv.
Comment by darkmoon — September 22, 2008 @ 10:08 am PST
Wouldn’t ‘blogger dude’ use mostly for computer, not TV? If that’s the case than DLP or LCD would be better option
Lestat should code up that badboy! Edit: this link has good comparison between the three.
Comment by TDavid — September 22, 2008 @ 10:27 am PST
I’m getting kinda spoiled with my three LCD monitors — I’m thinking three 50″ plasmas would be heaven.
Comment by Sterling Camden — September 22, 2008 @ 11:12 am PST
Sterling - you should check out the HP w2408. Reviewed it here. Best monitor I’ve ever bought and I bet it would be a sweet gift for some girls out there
Comment by TDavid — September 22, 2008 @ 11:33 am PST
The 2408 looks pretty good, but I don’t see anything to set it apart from my HP LP2465 for my purposes.
Comment by Sterling Camden — September 22, 2008 @ 11:39 am PST