Judas Priest Nostradamus is easily best album since Painkiller |
Judas Priest has remained my favorite heavy metal band for 25+ years now. I was delighted when Rob Halford rejoined the band, but enjoyed the time Tim ‘Ripper’ Owens (of Iced Earth) spent with the band. I’ve seen Priest in concert several times and they never disappoint live.
The description from the official Judas Priest biography page:
Long in the works, ‘Nostradamus’ takes epic storytelling to a whole new level, as it recounts the life of this mysterious, world-known 16th Century French prophet. Some of the events that Nostradamus experts have interpreted as his predictions include the great fire of London in 1666, the rise of Adolf Hitler, and most recently, 9-11, among countless other renowned events.
Here I thought they were just going to release another 10-15 song album and to my delight I discovered 23 songs waiting in the AmazonMP3 track list. I know what I’ll be listening to for awhile. Oh, and yes, I’ll be going out and buying the CD as well. Probably one of the two special editions:
In addition to the regular jewel case double CD version of the album, collectors will undoubtedly be interested in hunting down a copy of a Deluxe Double CD housed in a 48 page hardbound book package. But that’s not all - a Super Deluxe Box-set version will also be available with triple vinyl, the double CD, an expanded booklet & a poster.
Nostradamus track listing
These are the songs on Nostradamus in order with a few comments as I listen (will continue to update this, so check back after the post is published):
1. “Dawn of Creation” - a Priest album that starts with piano and continues with organ to intro the next track, it’s no Hellion but portends well for what follows. Prepare to be rocked in the next track.
2. “Prophecy” - just try to listen to this a few times and stop singing ‘Nostradamus’ - I’m guessing this will be played on their tour to support the album.
3. “Awakening”
4. “Revelations”
5. “The Four Horseman”
6. “War”
7. “Sands of Time” - the line “sands of time running low” an accidental (intentional?) tribute to fellow metal heads Iron Maiden?
8. “Pestilence And Plague”
9. “Death” - verse has the pace and feel of the classic Sabbath tune “Black Sabbath”
10. “Peace”
11. “Conquest”
12. “Lost Love”
13. “Persecution”
14. “Solitude”
15. “Exiled”
16. “Alone” - the acoustic guitar work on this track is some of the best of Priest’s career. If you were disappointed with how synthesizers were used in Turbo, this will restore your faith. Halford has a scream near the end that is one of his best ever. If you ever doubted that he still has the pipes, listen for it and enjoy. “Alonnnnnnnnnneeeeeeee!” Chilling. We keep playing this one over and over, it’s that good.
17. “Shadows In The Flame”
18. “Visions”
19. “Hope”
20. “New Beginnings”
21. “Calm Before The Storm”
22. “Nostradamus” - a thrasher in the spirit of “Screaming for Vengeance” and “Freewheel Burning”
23. “Future of Mankind” - one of the best dual guitar solo tradeoffs and a fitting close. KK Downing and Glen Tipton smoke the fretboards.
AmazonMP3 has easily slipped into my favorite place to shop for music online. I’ve collected all Judas Priest albums available through AmazonMP3 in the Judas Priest Store embedded in the post below (RSS readers might need to click through to the post to see)
Chronological order of Judas Priest studio albums
By my count this is Judas Priest’s 16th studio album beginning in 1974 and still rocking 34 years later:
1. Rocka Rolla (1974)
2. Sad Wings of Destiny (1976)
3. Sin after Sin (1977)
4. Stained Glass (1978)
5. Hell Bent For Leather (1979)
6. British Steel (1980)
7. Point of Entry (1981)
8. Screaming For Vengeance (1982)
9. Defenders of the Faith (1984)
10. Turbo (1986)
11. Ram It Down (1988)
12. Painkiller (1990)
13. Jugulator (1997) - Ripper Owens on Vocals
14. Demolition (2001) - Ripper Owens on Vocals
15. Angel of Retribution (2005) - Halford returns as vocalist
16. Nostradamus (2008)
Judas Priest Studio Albums - best to worst list
If you’re looking to buy the past Judas Priest studio albums, my son and I collaborated on buying and listening in the following order. If you feel like the buying order should be different, we welcome your comments below (we had a fun debate over this), trackbacked from your blog, FriendFeed, whatever. I linked the albums available in the Judas Priest store (via AmazonMP3) with the price as of this writing:
1. British Steel ($7.99)
2. Screaming For Vengeance ($7.99)
3. Hell Bent For Leather ($7.99)
4. Defenders of The Faith ($7.99)
5. Sad Wings of Destiny ($8.91)
6. Sin after Sin ($7.99)
7. Point of Entry ($7.99)
8. Stained Glass ($7.99)
9. Ram It Down ($7.99)
10. Painkiller ($7.99)
11. Jugulator (the only Judas Priest studio album not available at AmazonMP3)
12. Angel of Retribution ($7.99)
13. Turbo ($7.99)
14. Rocka Rolla ($7.92)
15. Demolition ($9.99)
I haven’t had enough time to fully listen and enjoy Nostradamus yet but through the early listens I’d already place it in their top 10 studio albums. Our oldest son thinks it should be #7, ahead of Point of Entry, but I’m not sure if any tracks have the staying power of Desert Plains or Heading Out To The Highway. Time will tell. The title track “Nostradamus” is perhaps the only real thrasher and could easily have been on Painkiller or Ram it Down. The Halford scream at the end of the haunting song “Alone” puts it way, way ahead of anything on Rocka Rolla and Demolition (with Ripper Owens).
Summary and grade
Nostradamus is clearly stronger than their reunion with Halford album Angel of Retribution and despite Turbo maybe being more commercially successful than other better albums, Nostradamus belongs in company with Ram It Down, Stained Glass and Painkiller. Their worst studio efforts to date are Rocka Rolla and Demolition, so save those for last and try not to hold against the band if/when building upon your Priest music collection.
Overall, it’s a good time to be a Judas Priest fan. Feels a bit like the late 80s as they were off the heavy success of Vengeance and Defenders tours. Judas Priest are going to be in Seattle at the WaMu theater next month, July 22. Yes, I want to go. Tracks from the tour are already making their way to YouTube.
If I were to grade Nostradamus on first listen, purely in scope, it deserves no less than a B. Tracks that stuck out on first listen include: “Prophecy”, “Alone”, “Nostradamus” and “Future of Mankind.” I feel like I’m going to be listening to this album for a long time. Next stop: the limited edition CD! Grade: A-
Update 6/20/08 8:28am PST: Yesterday, after posting this review I did two things:
1. Went to hang out in the official Judas Priest chatroom. Why? Wanted to see what other Priest fans were saying about Nostradamus. Nobody in the channel was giving the album bad reviews. In fact, a few were annoyed by some negative reviews on Amazon. If the album sucks, you’d definitely hear about it in the official chatroom, but so far the early opinions — there at least — are positive.
2. I went to Best Buy and bought the Deluxe CD version. It’s on sale for $24.99 (regularly $34.99) and comes with a full booklet and a free ticket to one of 12 different concerts on their tour. Good luck on that though because I checked the closest venue to me: Mountain View, CA which is still 800+ miles away and the free tickets were all used up. The package is nice though, it comes with a 48-page book containing the lyrics to all Nostradamus songs and some fantastic artwork:
One CD is in a special compartment at the beginning and the other is at the end. The spine of the book is professionally bound.
This is quality workmanship. We saw the Super-Deluxe version which contains the vinyl for sale at Best Buy for $69.99, BTW. Good prices for both version comparatively to what I’m seeing online.
I’m now at 200+ song listens to Nostradamus and getting even more into the storyline. You’ll see some of my passion in the comments below. This is a great story and one where following the lyrics are not optional. I’m sure one of the lyrics sites has them already, but go buy the deluxe version already with the booklet. If you like albums that tell stories, you’ll gobble this one up.
Did this post make you go hmm?
(5 votes, average: 4 out of 5)
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[…] ….so says my tech/computer wizard pal TDavid in a detailed review of the new Judas Priest CD, which can be found right here. […]
Pingback by Judas Priest - Nostradamus - “best album since Painkiller” — June 19, 2008 @ 6:11 pm PST
wow - really interested to hear this, after reading your review….glad to hear SOMEONE dug it!
Comment by Matt — June 19, 2008 @ 6:13 pm PST
Disagree with as much passion as I possibly can put toward a review. Nostradamus is a big, epic record. It’s also wildly pompous, slow, dull and devoid of most of the elements that made Judas Priest great in the first place. But whatever - you hold Turbo and Ram It Down in the “classic” material, which says a lot about your opinion anyway. This being said, I’m not criticizing you here…but I’ll put the challenge out. Please, line up ANGEL OF RETRIBUTION and TURBO on one side, and the actual songs of NOSTRADAMUS on the other side. Play one from one side, and then one from Nostradamus. You’ll understand quickly that while epic and well thought out, Nostradamus is an album that will have no staying power. A year from now, this album will be put away in everyone’s collection, with virtually no plays of this album ever again. I would guarantee that 98% of all Judas Priest fans will never, ever reach for this release when they want to hear Priest after the novelty of the newness wears off.
Comment by Chris — June 19, 2008 @ 6:25 pm PST
Chris - where did I ever hold Turbo in the “classic” material? Re-read the review, as I was clearly (I thought anyway) DISSING Turbo. From best to worst, we put Turbo at #13 out of the 15 studio albums Priest has done prior to Nostradamus. Turbo only — barely — made it ahead of Rocka Rolla and the abysmal Demolition (worst in the Priest studio catalog according to my son and I). I think you are having me give Turbo much, much more respect than I do.
Ram It Down, however, we placed as #9 out of 15 (a little better than Turbo, but still not in the hallowed Priest halls as British Steel or Screaming for Vengeance, so don’t lose your mind already) and it had some great Priest tracks on it. I think “Blood Red Skies” is among the best guitar synth songs Judas Priest has ever done and would fit on Nostradamus nicely. The title track (”Ram it Down”) is pure hard-driving Priest. I didn’t care for the Johnny Be Good cover, but my son liked that one. “Monsters of Rock” is another good one. Just listen to Ram It Down again and tell me seriously that it isn’t more Priest-like with the occasional synth/keys than Turbo (yech!). Some Priest fans have never accepted the keys, but look at a lot of metal bands these days and you’ll see keyboards and guitar synths being used.
As for “slow”? Come on, is this coming from a true Priest fan or sometimes listener? As I started this off, I’ve been listening and loving Priest music for over 25 years, I’m not going to be easily dissuaded by dissenter aggressor opinions
Go back to their BLUES roots. They have always done slow songs on records. From songs like “Fever” and “Take These Chains” on Screaming for Vengeance to “Beyond The Realms of Death” on Stained Glass and “Before The Dawn” on Hell Bent for Leather. Oh and what about “United” on British Steel? Faster songs like Hell Bent for Leather might be what makes them exciting to some fans, but they can do melodic songs great as well.
Hey what about when Tim Ripper Owens toured with them and they REDID “Diamonds and Rust” live as a slower, mellow song than the original?
Oh, and Angel of Retribution which you want put up against Turbo which we placed one notch below Turbo (#12 out of 15) had a major HIT with the SLOW song “Angel” in the UK. Despite that, Retribution was a quickly thrown together reunion effort and doesn’t hold a candle to Nostradamus. While I can’t stop listening to the compelling STORY of Nostradamus, I felt like Retribution lacked substance. Retribution wasn’t terrible, but it wasn’t as good as Ram it Down or Painkiller.
Judas Priest isn’t AC/DC who just puts out the same records over and over again with different song names and slightly different chordings. I love the direction of these epic albums. In this day and age when everybody is buying single tracks instead of complete albums, this forces music fans to listen to the entire album to “get it.” Respectfully, Chris, I don’t think you have got it yet. Keep listening. Be a defender of the faith, mon.
Come back to this discussion after you’ve, truly, honestly listened to the story, not just a few songs at random or a single play through the album without following the lyrics.
I give you the a few lyrics from the song “Death”:
This is GREAT stuff from Judas Priest. I think 98% of TRUE Judas Priest fans, the people like me who have followed the band for many years (not sure where you fit in, Chris) but through good times and bad times will LOVE Nostradamus. For some, it may not happen on the first few listens, maybe that’s where you fit in at the moment, Chris, I don’t know, but for others they will see what Priest is trying to do and appreciate it.
They could have gone into the studio and cranked out another lackluster 10-14 song effort, but they decided to do something different. What you label as “pompous” I would counter with “creative.” Beauty is in the eye of the …
Comment by TDavid — June 20, 2008 @ 7:03 am PST
Follow-up: Rush often does some really wild, intriguing lyrics and storytelling, but it doesn’t always match the songs. Nostradamus does something rare: it tells a story with music that matches the lyrical mood. Blackie Lawless did this with the two-CD opus The Neon God a few years back. I really dug part 1 of the Neon God but it faltered in Part 2. Like any story, you can’t just get by on having a good beginning and middle, you need to end strong. The Nostradamus story is compelling.
Think about great stories like Titanic. We all knew 2/3 of the people aboard that ship were going to die, but Cameron and Company did a great job telling a story that made us want to see Jack and Rose be part of that 1/3 that survived. Where is Titanic on the sales charts? It’s the biggest grossing movie of all time.
I don’t think this will be Judas Priest’s bestselling album ever, but it is a much more respectable effort than anything they’ve put out since Painkiller. Time will tell if it enters the hallowed halls of their top 5 albums. That is going to be difficult territory to breach for ANY new album. I think it’s in their top 10 studio albums to date though and stand behind my statement that it’s better than any studio album since Painkiller.
Comment by TDavid — June 20, 2008 @ 7:16 am PST
Is this where the pissing contest starts? No…I don’t think so. Much like you said, views are to be determined by those making them…with no thought at all of how others will agree or disagree.
This being said, I’d say I’m as long term a fan as I can be at 39 years old. Been seeing Priest since 1982. Have everything they’ve put out. One of my truly good friends is Ripper Owens. Have interviewed Glenn, KK and Rob numerous times…in fact, KK and Rob within the last three months (both are posted at www.youtube.com/theclassicmetalshow - shameless plug).
As far as Nostradamus, I’ve given it at least 10-15 full releases. It just doesn’t do it for me - as a Priest fan or as a music fan. It’s dull. The story is great, and yes, they did a lot of intricate things. And to the ear, it is garbage to me as a priest fan and a metal fan. The difference between this and, say, Operation Mindcrime is that Mindcrime can work as a full story, or as individual pieces taken away from the entire project. This can’t. Additionally, all the lame intros make this more like the last Manowar album than a truly great classic Metal album. Songs like “War” are abominable - absolutely wretched filler who’s only purpose is to flesh out the story.
I love priest - one of my top 3 favs ever. But even that doesn’t mean I have to love what they did because it’s different, unique, artsy or whatever.
Oh…and from a strictly listenable standpoint, I’ll take songs like “Devil Digger” or “Hell Is Home” from DEMOLITION over anything on NOSTRADAMUS.
Tag, you’re it. This is where you tell me that you are more metal than me or more of a Priest fan because you “get” what Nostradamus is and I don’t. Have at it, big boy!
Comment by Chris — June 20, 2008 @ 7:21 am PST
The only thing about music is I know what I like.
@Chris It seems to me your first comment out of the blocks seems like you have a chip on your shoulder to begin with. A guy makes a post making comparisons in his own view. If something could be added to enlighten the post or other readers so be it. Whats the big deal?
Your followed up with “Much like you said, views are to be determined by those making them…with no thought at all of how others will agree or disagree.” and proceeded to get personal. I guess I’m confused.
Comment by ^Lestat — June 20, 2008 @ 7:39 am PST
Chris - no, this isn’t a pissing contest and I wasn’t trying nor want to go down that road. Keep it respectful, please and I’ll do the same. You start putting words in my mouth though and we’ll have a problem.
I didn’t flame you, I gave you specific examples and suggested that you didn’t get the album yet. Did you read through the lyrics and read the story? I’m not convinced by your commentary here that you have, sorry. You listened to it front to back 10-15 times and you think it’s dull? O…k. You know somebody who used to be in the band, you interviewed the band members, big deal, what does that have to do with our discussion of the merits of Nostradamus? Did they give you some deep inside into what they were trying to do stylistically with the album? The band member who isn’t in the band and you say is your friend aside, I doubt they’d agree with your assessment that it’s “pompous and dull.”
And it’s strange, but not surprising, that you didn’t take back anything you misread in my original review and wrongly attributed to my opinion. What about my points about Priest BLUES roots? You sound almost angry (?) that Halford is back? I don’t get that at all. Forget it being about who’s more metal, that’s not only lame but a hugely subjective thing.
Ripper Owens is a GREAT singer, but sad to say he contributed to a period of time where Priest was floundering musically. The sales charts will tell the story factually, that’s not just opinion. I loved Ripper in Iced Earth, while I just liked him in Priest. I’m not sure if that’s because he was trying to sing too much like a Halford clone vs. being himself or not. Whatever, I’m glad he was there in the period, but you sound a little pissed that two different Priest fans consider Demolition to be the WORST studio album Judas Priest has put out to date.
I’ll agree that “Hell is Home” and “Devil Digger” are good tracks, but the duel axe solo in “Future of Mankind” alone is better musically than both those songs. The acoustic guitar work throughout Nostradamus is a long way from “dull.” And what about Halford’s closing scream in “Alone” ? Man, that raises the hair on my neck. It’s been some time since he’s had a scream moment like that. Love it. In the Judas Priest chatroom yesterday, the group was talking about this album and everybody there — bar none that I saw come in all day long — were giving Nostradamus thumbs down like you, Chris.
Time will tell though on this, I’d be the first to admit it’s way too early. I even said in my review above that Nostradamus needs more listens. I’m thinking 25-50+ full listen-thrus at least. In other words, keep listening
Some lyrics from your favorite track, “War” (I’m teasing, Chris, relax):
Comment by TDavid — June 20, 2008 @ 7:56 am PST
I’m tied up with getting ready for a convention….otherwise, I’d love to get involved in all of this.
For what it’s worth - after 10 years of doing radio with Chris, he’s not really known for “taking things back,” but I can also share that he is like me, a very intense music fan, and from my perception, meant no offense with his original comment. He also needs no one to defend or interpret his words, so I’ll step out on that note…
I shared your review with him, because I like getting his perspective on an album, much like I am interested when I see your perspective on a particular album. He and I hadn’t talked about Nostradamus at the point that I saw your review, so I was interested to get his thoughts….hence why I forwarded your review to spike discussion!
One of the things that I dug, and didn’t express in my own blog pointing to your post here, was that you are a Priest fan that supports the Ripper-era stuff. Sadly, and as you mention with sales figures, there just aren’t enough Priest fans like yourself, out there.
I LOVED the Ripper era stuff, and actually, I really dug the Demolition album - One on One, Subterfuge, and to a lesser degree, Metal Messiah, were favorites.
The Ripper tours were killer…and it’s a shame that fans didn’t really grab on to Ripper-era Priest, because vocally, he’s in much better shape than Halford these days……and yes, he’s younger than Halford….but I would also argue that Owens was better vocally than Halford ever was live, in his prime.
I recommend the Live in London live album which sonically has little/no studio fixes, for fans that want to check out the Ripper Priest in the live setting……and Live Meltdown, from the Jugulator tour is good too, and although it sounds heavily touched up in the studio, it rocks!
Cheers…
Comment by Matt Wardlaw — June 20, 2008 @ 8:20 am PST
Matt - when you get a second, check out the update above I posted with pics of the Nostradamus deluxe edition. That’s the one I’d buy. Best Buy has it on sale for $24.99 which matches the Amazon price. This comes with a killer book that lets you read through the story to go along with the music. This is one of those rare albums where the lyrics really are important to fully digest the picture.
I enjoyed Live in London (B- grade), but was a bit disappointed that it had 18 of the same tracks as Meltdown. Would have rather seen a little different setlist. It’s interesting to note that JP seems to have dropped two mainstays for the Nostradamus tour setlist: “Victim of Changes” and “Living After Midnight.”
The latter I can understand. It’s an anthem we’ve heard since British Steel and it’s time to give that one a rest, but how can they not play “Victim of Changes”? The only Nostradamus tracks they are playing that I’ve seen so far mentioned in current setlists are the opening two tracks (”Dawn of Creation” and “Prophecy”) and the title track. I would like to see them expand that to at least 4 or 5 songs like they’ve done to support most past albums. Heck, why not do what Queensryche did with Operation Mindcrime and do a full on Nostradamus tour, beginning to end, with a few bonus classic Priest tracks. Even if it’s only just a one or two night special show deal, then we’d hear how this plays out live. Maybe that will be their next live set if Nostradamus sells well.
Have to wait and see on that one. A number of folks were talking in the JP chatroom yesterday about how Priest might follow-up Nostradamus. That’s an interesting question and glad I don’t have to think too much about it at the moment.
Comment by TDavid — June 20, 2008 @ 8:53 am PST
Chris of all things I consider “dull” this album is not one of them, I can’t remember a single song from Demolition but you seem to know them like they’re all fresh in your mind. Maybe you’re stuck in the Owens era because he’s your friend but I’ve got to tell you that album stunk on ice and if it didn’t please tell me why it’s received and I’ll say this blunt “little to NO playtime.” I think Tim “Ripper” Owens is a great singer but its time to forget it, he is no longer in Priest and the singer of Judas Priest is Rob Halford now. I think the switch to Iced Earth was a great move for Owens and in Iced Earth he’s done WAYYYYY BETTTERRRRR things than Demolition.
My opinions of Nostradamus are all relatively good, you’ve got the opening songs Dawn Of Creation and Prophecy which are awesome. But then you’ve got a song called Alone which you’re going to say is probably one of the dullest thing’s on this album, and you know what that’s your opinion but as a Priest fan you’ve got to open up your mind and give a little bit of your time to get a little bit of the album’s greatness in return. The screams in Alone remind me of the older stuff, when Priest became what they are, metal legends. Now what about Future of Mankind, did you skip that track or did you fall asleep through the album? Future of Mankind another song that I’d have to say is great, it’ll be a song stuck in peoples brains for times to come and I believe it deserves that. The song that really you haven’t even touched upon Chris is called Nostradamus, it’s the cover song for this album and it holds its reputation.
~Jowl
Comment by Jowl — June 20, 2008 @ 9:00 am PST
LOL Jowl, you posted under my logged in account. I’ll fix that for you. (Jowl is my son that was mentioned in the original review above, BTW, and a fellow Priest fan. We went to Ozzfest 2004 together)
Comment by TDavid — June 20, 2008 @ 9:01 am PST
Let me make sure I understand what’s been written here…
I’m stuck in the Ripper era because Tim’s my friend.
I am mad because Rob Halford is in the band.
I must not have listened to NOSTRADAMUS enough because I don’t like it.
Did I get that all right, folks?
Insane…every point. Tim himself is glad Rob is back in the band, and I think Halford rules. One of the very, very best ever. Loved AOR. Loved the touring for it. Saw it several times. Respect Rob, and feel honored to have had several great conversations with the legend.
I didn’t hate Demolition like the rest…sue me.
I’m not in the business of forcing myself to like anything that I don’t like because I’m a fan of the band.
OK, now that that is settled, I’ll gladly invite you David to come on my radio program and debate the merits of Nostradamus on our show. We’re recording our next week’s show either tonight or tomorrow, and I’d love to have you on to promote your site and have a spirited debate about it. Works for me. hit me up on email off-list - richwithhatred@pitriff.com - if you are interested.
Rock,
Chris
Oh yeah. I’m glad to hear that the members of the Judas Priest chatroom liked Nostradamus…that’s a shocker! I hear that the members of the poison fan club find them to be the best band ever as well.
Comment by Chris — June 20, 2008 @ 9:10 am PST
Chris - This statement makes no sense applied to me: “I’m not in the business of forcing myself to like anything that I don’t like because I’m a fan of the band.” Are you seriously accusing or insinuating that I would like anything Judas Priest put out simply because they have been my favorite metal band the last 25+ years? The review above and my comments that follow tell you there are studio albums — Demolition being one of them — that I did NOT like. I was disappointed with Halford’s reunion album and greatly preferred Jugulator over it, even though it was only one position off. In fact, I prefer Halford’s stuff from FIGHT over studio albums 12-15 in the best to worst list my son and I assembled above.
Extremely short notice, but I will gladly accept your invite to be on your show to share my opinion on Nostradamus — when and IF you figure out that my name isn’t ‘David’ please just let me know. [Hint: I’m TDavid on Skype and hundreds of other sites, contact me on Skype].
You’re welcome to call me ‘TD’ for short if that’s easier to remember, Hris, er, I mean Chris
My schedule is tight today as I have a live radio show of my own to host (it’s been running 8+ years) and won’t be available from 1-5pm PST (unless you want to call into the show from 2-4pm PST, be my guest, the call-in number is 253-843-6283 or TDavid on Skype).
I’m going to be attending Podcamp Seattle tomorrow all day and in the evening will probably be AFK/offline. Sunday I jam with our band and will be unavailable. Tonight, however might still work, but you better get with me ASAP if you’d truly like that to happen.
Otherwise, well, you know where to find me for future shows
Comment by TDavid — June 20, 2008 @ 9:37 am PST
I think this post is officially Hmmm-worthy.
I think also, that I’ve earned the right to call you “T-Diddy.”
I could be wrong on that second part.
Comment by Matt Wardlaw — June 20, 2008 @ 9:49 am PST
Hehe Matt, I’ll take “T-Diddy” over the one where people miss what seems to me like an obvious first letter to my name — it’s CAPITALIZED for pete’s sake. I’d rather be called a string of several expletives than that
Comment by TDavid — June 20, 2008 @ 9:53 am PST
“This statement makes no sense applied to me: “I’m not in the business of forcing myself to like anything that I don’t like because I’m a fan of the band.” Are you seriously accusing or insinuating that I would like anything Judas Priest put out simply because they have been my favorite metal band the last 25+ years?”
No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying exactly what is written there. Reading the statement, it’s pointed at ME, not you. It states that “I” am not in the business of forcing myself to like anything even if I’m a fan of the band. The point of that was somehow missed, but I’ll clarify. I listened. I didn’t like it. I’m not going to give it more and more listens to try to make myself like it eventually. Again, I put that statement out there as a reference to me, not you. What you do, how you evaluate music, what you decide is good or not - your business. I don’t agree with your opinion of this record…period. I’m sure you don’t agree with me. Fine. As someone that’s written thousands of reviews, I know the deal. I certainly know that having a strong opinion simply means that people will question it.
The real bottom line here - Nostradamus is probably the most controversial release in the band’s history. It’s certainly the one where fans have the widest range of opinions. BRITISH STEEL was a masterpiece. SCREAMING and DEFENDERS were pretty close to that one as well. While there are a couple songs I do like on Nostradamus (”Persecution”, “Death”, maybe the title track), most of it doesn’t work at all for me. My whole point here was that I’m not going to reach to find a reason to like it. Listened multiple times - didn’t like - end. Analyzing the story won’t make it any better a listen to me. If I want to see a play, I’ll go see one.
Someone indicated about Nostradamus would be cool to see live. While I disagree, KK told me a month ago that is the probable course of action following the Metal Masters tour. I’m sure it’ll be every bit as entertaining as the Iron Maiden tour of A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH.
Comment by Chris — June 20, 2008 @ 10:47 am PST
“I listened. I didn’t like it. I’m not going to give it more and more listens to try to make myself like it eventually. Again, I put that statement out there as a reference to me, not you.”
Guess I compare this to seeing the first 15 minutes of a movie and walking out. You don’t seem to care that much about music storytelling with comments like this: “If I want to see a play, I’ll go see one.”
What is it you wanted out of this album, really? What did you expect? 23 songs that they’ve already done with different names and slightly different riffs (a la AC/DC)?
Like it or not, music is art. Some like art that they can look at once and immediately understand and appreciate. Some people like short stories where it’s get in and out quickly for the cheap thrills. Other people enjoy novels and/or deep thinking art where the more they look at it, the more doors it opens in the mind. Still other people prefer movies as their avenue of storytelling rather than in music or books.
Judas Priest clearly didn’t make a simple man’s metal album with Nostradamus. They could have gone that route and if they had, I’d have listened to it a few times like you did (10-15 actually is a pretty decent number of listens though, it’s not like you just listed a few times and gave up, you did give some effort, I’ll credit you for that) and then shelved it like I did their last album. I had to struggle to enjoy albums 12-15 in the list above as a whole.
You haven’t indicated if you’ve even read through the Nostradamus lyrics from beginning to end. Did you? If you didn’t then I think as a fellow music reviewer that’s not a very thorough job. When I read reviews I’m looking for the point of view of someone who sampled everything important, including the packaging and puts their personal biases in clear sight. I’m curious, did you check out the artwork or packaging? There are some fantastic drawings in there (see updated pictures above). When I originally wrote the review I only had the DRM-free AmazonMP3 experience and I felt like I was missing something. After buying the deluxe version at BB and updating the review, I feel it’s much more complete now.
Now, will your comeback be: “So what. I don’t care about the artwork or lyrics.” ??? An album to me as a package artistically includes the cover artwork, interior artwork and lyrics and unfortunately the AmazonMP3 package, although the least expensive, doesn’t do Nostradamus the justice of buying the full package.
Are the lyrics just words that rhyme or do they actually mean something? Do they go with the music or detract from it (as in what I alluded to with Rush above). Yes, if I don’t like the music, then great artwork and awesome lyrical content aren’t going to sell me on giving the album a good review, but it is an important part of the overall composition, not something to just shrug off as a reviewer and say that doesn’t matter.
Give up on Nostradamus if you want, personally, that’s totally your call. But I’d at least try to dig deeper within yourself and see if you are missing something the artist is trying convey. Interesting seeing that as time goes on Nostradamus is getting BETTER reviews at Amazon (saw it at 3 out of 5 stars at one point, now it’s up to 4/5 on the deluxe version and 3.5/5 for the audio CD). The first batch had quite a few “i don’t get it” type reviews. What are more and more reviewers saying? You have to give this one time to gel. And I think the 48-page book with artwork is vital.
That’s all I’ve been saying from the beginning, Chris. Everything is too new right now. Come back to this thread in a couple months and update me on how the album has settled with you. Who knows, maybe I won’t feel as positively about it as I do now. I said in the review, again, that it needs more time.
Comment by TDavid — June 20, 2008 @ 11:17 am PST
Music is art - sure. And art is interpretive. Some interpret Monet as brilliant. I interpret it as shit.
I understand your points. All of them being said, they don’t apply to me. I checked out the art and the lyrics as they were provided in the promo copy I received. And, like I do with every CD I get, I ripped it to my hard drive and dumped the hard copy. Some people, such as yourself, get something out of the aesthetics of the package. I, personally, couldn’t give two shits about it and never have cared about it. I have to read a 48 page book in order to appreciate a CD? Yeah, I’ll pass on that. Take this statement however you want, but I’ll take “stupid” metal like anything from Pantera, Testament, Death Angel, Exodus, etc. over this stuff. Am I jaded? Maybe. Unfortunately, I get about 50 CDs a week and everyone wants an opinion written on all of them. I gave the Priest album 10-15 listens all the way through trying to get it, and don’t feel it. I hate, hate, hate the second disc. And there’s too much with all the mood setters in between the actual songs, and built into the actual songs themselves.
Oh, and to be honest, as far as music goes to me generally, lyrics are just words. I like songs like “Livin’ After Midnight” or “Private Property” far better than most of this cerebral lyricism that engulfs this dog of an album. And I think you will give me that those songs are not exactly triumphs of lyrical mastery. The best record out today, in my opinion, is Volbeat’s ROCK THE REBEL/METAL THE DEVIL. It’s cool, different, fun, has great old-school sounding Metallica-like riffs, and cool melodies. All that being said, I have no f*cking idea what they are talking about. I guess for me, I think enough doing my day job. When I put on my music, I don’t need a history lesson, and I’m not likely to prepare for a book report prior to listening to any album. F*ck the challenge - just rock me Priest!
Comment by Chris — June 20, 2008 @ 11:34 am PST
I was just logging on to express my interest in the CD after reading the review. My brother was really into learning about Nostradamus when he was in high school, so I’m curious to see JP’s take on the story.
I wasn’t expecting to see the in-depth discussion that is taking place. Interesting points and dialog.
Comment by UptakeInOH — June 20, 2008 @ 9:45 pm PST
[…] at this debate I started between my pals Chris and TDavid about the new Judas Priest CD Nostradamus. I still haven’t […]
Pingback by Quick Hits - Judas Priest, Summertime, Kanye West — June 21, 2008 @ 10:41 am PST
Good fair review. Nostradamus actually has many of the classic elements of Judas Priest, it is just from the songs that the “haters” skip every time they listen to their Judas Priest CDs. Remeber “Prelude”? It was a classical piano piece played by Glenn Tipton, the first song on side two of Sad Wings of Destiny. They have many orchestrated, mellow, accoustic, and other elements found in Nostradamus on many of their classic albums, especially their first four. The people who have listened to all Judas Priest songs on all the albums will “get” it and love this CD as many that I know do. The casual “fan” who skips to only the simpler “rocker” songs probably won’t get it and will not like it. That is why songs like “Breaking the Law” and “Living After Midnight” are some of their biggest “hits” despite being two of the simplest least technical songs Judas Priest has made. Nostradamus is over the heads of many people out there. They probably would like it if they spent the time to truly listen to it, but in today’s instant gratification society they don’t have the attention span it takes.
Comment by Toy Gunn — June 23, 2008 @ 9:02 am PST
Toy Gunn - I’m compiling a playlist of songs in the Priest catalog that could have been on Nostradamus, just to show Nostradamus dissers that you know what, Judas Priest has released mellow, moody songs in their 30+ year career
It includes the following songs from past Priest albums and feel free to suggest others:
1. Prelude (that you mentioned as well) - Sad Wings of Destiny
2. Dreamer and Deceiver - Sad Wings of Destiny
3. Epitaph - Sad Wings of Destiny
4. Beyond The Realms of Death - Stained Glass
5. Evening Star - Hell Bent for Leather
6. Before the Dawn - Hell Bent for Leather
7. United - British Steel
8. Take These Chains - Screaming For Vengeance
9. Fever - Screaming for Vengeance
10. Prisoner of Your Eyes (bonus unreleased track on remaster) - Screaming for Vengeance
11. Night Comes Down - Defenders of the Faith
12. Out in the Cold - Turbo
13. Turning Circles - Point of Entry
14. Blood Red Skies - Ram It Down
15. Battle Hymn - Painkiller
16. Living Bad Dreams (bonus unreleased track on remaster) - Painkiller
17. Cathedral Spires - Jugulator
18. Angel - Angel of Retribution
19… more songs need adding from Rocka Rolla and Sin after Sin, not to mention the live “reintroduction” of Diamonds and Rust that Ripper Owens sang live on Live in London.
I’d be curious if anybody who listens to the playlist above and then listens to Nostradamus again has a different reaction. Just because these songs are “slow” doesn’t mean they don’t jam. Take the solo for “Beyond the Realms of Death” or “Dreamer Deceiver” which totally jam!
Comment by TDavid — June 23, 2008 @ 9:17 am PST
I have no problem with someone if they don’t like Nostradamus, that is their opinion and their right. I just have a problem with those who have the attitude that if they don’t like it then it sucks, no room for discussion or compromise. When they take it “personal” because you don’t agree with them, because only their opinion counts in their mind, is even more rediculous.
I have no problem if those people disagree based on the merits of the album. I just have a problem with those who pull their “reasons” out of their backside and make statements like this is nothing like anything they have previously released despite the band having many songs which do.
I can agree to respectfully disagree on matters of differing opinion and I try to look at things from the other person’s perspective. If they just like simple songs with catchy simple riffs and pop hooks, cool more power too them. While I like the simple catchy songs also, I like complex instrumentals, epic story telling, opera style vocals, tempo changes, and stuff too. Actually I prefer it. I would rather listen to “Beyond The Realms Of Death” over “Living After Midnight” any day.
I just don’t understand why others can’t respectfully agree to disagree. I also don’t see how a person who doesn’t like this style of metal and presfers the simple catchy tunes to be put in the position to give an honest review of a complex “artsy” album like Nostradamus (especially a person with the “if I don’t like it then it sucks” attitude). That is like having a non-drinker judge the qualities of whiskey then call you out because they don’t agree with your favorite brand.
Good list of songs for an example of teh many facets of Judas Priest btw.
Comment by Toy Gunn — June 23, 2008 @ 10:15 am PST
[…] the strong and weak points of the Saints album, which I purchased on AmazonMP3 ($8.99) and took off Judas Priest Nostradamus to listen to instead for awhile, let’s revisit Motley Crue’s studio albums to […]
Pingback by First new studio album from original Motley Crue lineup in over 10 years: Saints of Los Angeles » Make You Go Hmm — June 25, 2008 @ 9:34 am PST
i’d have to say, we should give kudos to this band and judas priest. he’s a heavy metal legend
and he deserves to be called exactly that.
Comment by MykeC — June 30, 2008 @ 6:08 pm PST