Are hyphenated married names pretentious? |
Got to get this one off my chest. Women who use hyphenated last names bug me. If my wife had been the type of woman who wanted to use a hyphenated last name, I would never have married her.
Now wait, before you bash me for being shallow. Look ladies, you marry someone, you don’t have to take his last name. You can keep your maiden name, but I do not like at all the whole maiden_name-married_name convention. The whole hyphenated last name thing needs to fly to a distant galaxy and never return. Those who have stage names should keep their names whether they get married or not. That’s part of your brand.
And while we’re at it, it’s 1000 times worse if you do this online. Women, I know you won’t listen to some blogger who doesn’t even have a last name, but I beg you to stop pointing at yourself, intentionally or not, with your 25+ character names. First rule of internet naming common sense: choose something short.
That’s at least partly why my name is ‘TDavid’ and even more preferably: TD. It’s easy to type, easy to remember, and easy not to screw up (but some people still do and miss the capital ‘T’). If you want to be Jane mynameisimportant-soIusetwoofthem make that your problem, not ours.
Ahhh, I feel so much better. I’ve been waiting to write this for years. I made it a Twitter message before blogging this, here are a few heartfelt responses before pressing the publish button.
@claynewton writes: “@TDavid, I don’t think it’s pretentious in the least to hyphenate. The “last name” matter is as complex as the fabric of our culture”
But *online* why hyphenate @claynewton? It seems to go against the KISS principle. Look at Twitter with 140 chars. 180 for married women?
@Trula: “married women who hyphenate aren’t being pretentious. it’s just they don’t realize the point. the name issue is mere icing.”
And then Trula’s follow-up: ” @TDavid take his name, keep your name, hyphenate. none is more valid choice. you’re still married, complicit in patriarchal institution.”
Ironic, but this post might seem pretentious to some. Wow, it’s also the second post of the day, been awhile since I could say that (gasp). Feel free to weigh in below whether or not you think hyphenated names are pretentious and please note that I didn’t use any freaking hyphens in the title, ha!
Did this post make you go hmm?
(14 votes, average: 3.5 out of 5)
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My wife kept her last name when we married. When we had kids, we gave them my last name as their middle name, and her last name as their surname.
Regarding hyphenation, sometimes the children take the hyphenated name as well. Then what happens in the next generation? Even more hyphens? Or do they just resort to inbreeding to save on typing?
Comment by Sterling "Chip" Camden — May 22, 2008 @ 1:15 pm PST
So would you have still married your wife if she wanted to have a hyphenated name, Sterling?
Comment by TDavid — May 22, 2008 @ 4:36 pm PST
Of course — because when we married we were just recognizing the relationship that we had already built over two years of living together. I probably would have brought up the fact that no online or paper forms would have enough characters available for our combined names, though. Heck, it ticks me off that a lot of forms don’t allow more than 8 characters for first name, which truncates our daughter’s name.
But when my mother remarried after my father’s death, she hyphenated her name. I’m OK with that, if that’s what she wants.
My first wife still goes by my last name, even though she has since remarried. That one kind of creeps me out.
Comment by Sterling "Chip" Camden — May 22, 2008 @ 5:03 pm PST
I think with a lot of women — and understandably so — it’s a hassle to change your surname, so that probably explains your ex’s situation. Or maybe she just couldn’t get over you
Comment by TDavid — May 22, 2008 @ 5:24 pm PST
Hyphenated surnames were commonplace in England long before feminists deconstructed western materialism.
But why do you focus on women as being pretentious in this post, TD?
I know at least a couple of men who’ve hyphenated their surnames with their wives’.
In Spanish, the mother’s line is part of every male’s name, so at least there is more than one historical precedent in western civilization for a nomenclature that includes the matrilineal aspect of humanity.;-)
Comment by Vince Williams — May 22, 2008 @ 7:51 pm PST
Does your disdain also apply to men? Or if the marriage issue is out of the question is it irrelevant?
I kind of like the fact that my wife and I took the same last name when we married (15 years ago this summer). But it’s a pain in the a* when booking flights. (airline computers don’t recognize the hyphen). And I shorten it to the original all the time.
(I also had second thoughts about the muslim part of the adopted name after 9-11, but that’s a different issue).
WILL
Comment by Will Glass-Husain — May 22, 2008 @ 8:24 pm PST
What Vince said about Spanish naming conventions…. How bout those of us who are II, III, IV, V’s? Should we carry the roman numeral?
Comment by FranciscoIV — May 23, 2008 @ 7:43 am PST
I’ll just start going by “Sterling the Great” and be done with it.
Comment by Sterling "Chip" Camden — May 23, 2008 @ 9:14 am PST
People have done it for ages, that’s why ethnic names have “De” and “Du” in front of them. I’m personal fan of the couple choosing a new name upon marriage. It would be so much more interesting that way.
Comment by beth in greensboro — May 23, 2008 @ 9:37 am PST
To me it smacks of elitism. Call me prejudice, I just get that impression for whatever reason.
Comment by orangecrush — May 23, 2008 @ 10:33 pm PST
Vince - because I recognize this as an issue that comes up primarily with women in the United States. I had no idea of its origins in history in other locales. I definitely feel the same toward men using hyphens, so no sexism is in play, that can be assured.
Sterling The Great? LOL!
Comment by TDavid — May 24, 2008 @ 5:36 am PST
FranciscoIV - the numbers in names (or jr, sr) are not in the same category as hyphens to me, after all that is there to avoid naming collision. However, is Francisco (the first) still alive? Once the older Francisco’s die off, is the numbering still necessary? Bottom line: numbering = not pretentious IMO.
Will - see my response to Vince in #11 and please excuse me not using your hyphen in a response. That’s what happens, people just axe the hyphen anyway in online communications. Why use them? Religious reasons? That one makes some sense although I seriously doubt God cares that much about hyphens either.
Beth - I like the new name together idea.
Comment by TDavid — May 24, 2008 @ 5:56 am PST
TD,
I didn’t think you were being sexist, but since you said “Got to get this one off my chest”, I wondered if some recent event precipitated this reaction.
The guys I know who hyphenated their names to include their wives’ surnames did it back in the ’70s as a gesture of solidarity with our ’sisters’.
I see no intrinsic reason why women should subsume their identity to their husbands’ when they get married, but it will be interesting to see how gays (male or female) who marry each other in California handle the naming of any children conceived or adopted within the marriage.
I assume that most of the parents will retain their own surnames, but it does raise the issue of whose surname children born into their families will carry. A hyphenated name would be an easy, if inefficient, solution.
Comment by Vince Williams — May 24, 2008 @ 10:53 am PST
I’m with TD on this one. For me it seems that a woman is not willing to commit all of herself to the relationship of she is still keeping part of her old self. In short, i think women only half-marry their husbands if they keep their old name as well. Where has the trust and pride in their relationship gone if they can’t make a change to symbolise it?
Comment by pete F — May 25, 2008 @ 3:09 pm PST
I would also like to express my displeasure with modern-day harlots exposing their ankles in their beach attire.
Poppycock, I say.
Comment by Matthew Boyd — May 26, 2008 @ 5:50 pm PST
I was determined not to change my name when I got married - I had gone 29 years with the same name, committing to my husband shouldn’t mean I change my identity, should it? But we both decided to change our names to a hyphenated hybrid as a sign of unity. His name comes first, simply because it sounds better and we are both proud and happy to explain our decision to people who question the pretention of hyphenation. I have also found that the aversion to hyphenation is a very American trend - many of my American friends use their maiden name as a middle name, which, to me is simply the same thing as taking their husband’s name.
Comment by Alice — August 27, 2008 @ 8:51 pm PST
I absolutely hate hyphenated names. I agree that if my wife insisted on hyphenating I would not have married her. The bible states God views marriage as two becoming as one. With a hyphenated name it implies the women does not want this and prefers to keep her own identity. Search the internet on this topic. Time and time again, reasons given for this is that it is easier to change if you decide to leave the marriage, etc… Obviously women who hyphenate have their own interests at heart.
To me I would fine it extremely insulting if a women I felt so in love with that I chose to ask her to be my wife would refuse the one thing only I could give to her- my name. But still demand a diamond ring. What is this saying? To me it says I dont want you just what you can give me.
It would be interesting to see how these women would feel if men just decided that having to give a women a diamond ring was old fashion, and obsolete. We just either do without or use a washer for the local Lowes or Home Depot. Its round and fits on the finger just like a ring.
Comment by Rob — September 4, 2008 @ 10:08 am PST
Well, I’m not that religious, so I guess my views are as different from yours as they could be.
But, actually the argument “two becoming one” was a pretty compelling reason to hyphenate. I liked the symbolism and we both took the hyphenated name.
But then, at 21, I didn’t really have the cash to buy a diamond ring– we just stuck with gold. But for us it seemed to work out, that was 15 years ago and we’re both still having the name and wearing the rings.
Comment by Will Glass-Husain — September 4, 2008 @ 2:19 pm PST
I find the whole idea of hyphenating surnames very pretentious. As to the idea of a wife “losing” her identity simply because she takes her husbands surname, that’s even more absurd. Both partners change / adapt / compromise in order to make the relationship work, and inside or outside marriage, life is a constant stream of change anyway……unless you decide at some arbitrary point that you know everything there is to know about everything. There is also a contradiction between a woman who happily hyphenates her maiden and married names, but DOESN’T hyphenate her christian names..ie Mary Beth, or Billy Jo. Incidentally, my dog’s name is……. Ringo Dingo Percivil-Smythe 1V.
Comment by TimC — September 16, 2008 @ 6:35 am PST
I was the only child in my family, and a girl. I hyphenated my name when I got married out of respect for my father. I see absolutely no problem with that. I did receive a lot of flack from ignorant, though in most cases, well meaning friends and family. Keeping my name, and also honoring my husband by taking his name as well, was not pretentious. I take issue with anyone who expresses that. It shows intolerance and has no place in our society.
Comment by Laura — October 11, 2008 @ 2:04 am PST
Laura - If I had a daughter, I surely wouldn’t see it as a sign of respect for her to carry my surname as hyphenated with her husband’s. Maybe yours and other fathers feel differently? Will admit I never thought about it from a parental perspective (we have three boys, no girls). That’s pretty cool if your father does and I would agree that it is not pretentious at all. I appreciate and welcome your perspective and thank you for sharing.
But that doesn’t change how I feel about hyphenated names in general. Especially online. You aren’t using a hyphenated name on the internet, so respect for your father and husband in concert isn’t an online thing? That respect is only offline? Why use a hyphenated name online where brevity in characters is at a premium?
And I respectfully disagree that disagreeing on something raises to the level of intolerance. I’m not going out and burning people’s lawns who have hyphenated names or joining any hyphenated name hate groups.
If others are doing so then I’d agree with you that that would be ignorant and intolerant and you might have something with substance to take issue with. In the meantime, live your live however makes you happy and maybe try to have a little more open mind. I do
Comment by TDavid — October 11, 2008 @ 7:32 am PST
TDavid - I see no reason to hyphenate online and have never done so. I tend to use initials online, which has nothing to do with respect for anyone but myself and also has to do with personal preference. Perhaps because I have heard again and again in the last 13 years remarks regarding my name from people, I am a bit defensive. It is interesting that something like a name having a dash in it will get such extreme responses from people. I’ve heard “Oh, you’re one of those people.” quite often, usually with more than a hint of sarcasm.
For me, it was never about losing my identity or wanting a contingency plan if the marriage didn’t work. My husband never had a problem with me hyphenating. Would I have married him if he had - yes. Would I have taken his name and dropped mine, I doubt it. Any man who truly loved me would never ask me to drop my name. It’s who I am. I wouldn’t ask anyone I loved to drop their name just because I married them. That’s stupid.
Comment by Laura — October 12, 2008 @ 10:45 pm PST
TD, I am considering hyphenating my last name.
I do however have a reason for this - it is personal, but here goes:
I had two children before I met my husband, and they both have my maiden name - I figured by hyphenating my last name now, we could all at least share that.
Comment by FJones — October 31, 2008 @ 3:47 pm PST
Laura…I have to say that I find your arguments regarding the retention of your fathers (family) name pretty thin. I respect the person, not their name or position, but under NO circumstances do I find this whole subject anything more that lightweight. As to my “intolerance” regarding the method people choose to identify themselves, that’s a total nonsense. I could care less what you choose to call yourself…..I’m simply expressing an opinion. If that is your definition of intolerance, then you’re shutting the door on all views contrary to your own, which is probably a rather better definition of intolerance. As I understand the dynamics of the marriage ceremony, the bride’s father is normally the one who “GIVES THE BRIDE AWAY”…. Isn’t that supposed to signify that you’ve moved from your father’s family to your husband’s, and part of that process is that you forego your family surname and take your husbands name to signify your acceptance of this transfer.?? I expect the millions of people who’ve gone through this process are well meaning but misguided, and all now regret losing their identity. I find it a strange notion that exchanging one’s family surname for their husbands could promote any sort of identity crisis, but it apparently does. I wonder whether that then creates another problem….who’s surname comes first in this hyphenated concoction..?? If I were the husband and came second, I might have an identity crisis of my own…..Hmmmmm !!! I’ll have to get a letter off to President-Elect Obama….I think he needs to be addressing this pressing issue with some urgency.
ps. I’ve just seen F Jones post, and I agree with her 100%. Her viewpoint certainly makes sense, and gives her children a continuing sense of identity and belonging to both old and new families.
Comment by TimC — November 9, 2008 @ 11:17 am PST
Giving your children your last name as middle name? Are you kidding me?! Why in the hell would you do that to your children? That’s almost as bad as naming your son Cody or Cory or Brody or some stupid name like that… I can see if you don’t have the balls to stand up to your wife, but c’mon.. your children shouldn’t have to pay for your lack of balls!
Comment by Josh — November 24, 2008 @ 6:58 am PST
What does a last name have to do with balls?
Comment by Sterling Camden — November 24, 2008 @ 1:31 pm PST
Josh seems to live in some parallel dimension that overlaps the one the rest of us live in. Somehow he’s lived there his whole life and never noticed all those people who have a family surname for a middle name (preppies are prone to this). Admittedly, it’s possible that he missed this fact because so few people with a name like Thomas Oldham Faircloth use their middle name.
As for balls, I’d say Josh’s somehow got misplaced and have plenty of room to rattle around inside his skull.;-)
Comment by Vince Williams — November 24, 2008 @ 8:40 pm PST
All hyphenated names a pretentious and annoying. I always ignore them and go for the real surname. Seems to be a growing trend too, all a bit Hyacinth Bucket (Bouquet). I dont single out any gender there either.
Comment by Sean — December 18, 2008 @ 3:20 am PST
life would get interesting if two of these pretentious names came together ie John posonby-smyth-wilson-philips the names would become huge a few generations down the line.
Comment by Sean — December 18, 2008 @ 3:24 am PST
john Ponsoby-Smyth marries Chantelle Wilson-Philips now there is a name to conjure with
Comment by Sean — December 18, 2008 @ 3:25 am PST
Hey Vince, having balls means not writing responses like yours while you’re hiding behind a keyboard. My point is that although hyphenation and surnames have noble roots, THEY’RE NOT USED AS SUCH NOWADAYS. You talk about spouses subliming their names after marriage? You make it sound like a power struggle where if the wife keeps her name she wins. I’m not speaking for everyone, but hyphenated names are arrogant and pretentious. You don’t like what I have to say? I respect that. You want to talk about something else? we can arrange that.
-Josh
Comment by Josh — January 8, 2009 @ 5:38 pm PST
Hey Josh, I sign my full name. Who’s hiding? You talk a big game, but that’s all you have. Fail.
Comment by Vince Williams — January 8, 2009 @ 5:58 pm PST
I am hyphenating my name, for my father. He has two girls and with us his last name dies. So in honor and respect to him and his family I am keeping my last name and adding my fiance’s.
Comment by Mal — February 3, 2009 @ 8:18 am PST
how does hyphenating keep the name? it merely changes the surname to a new hyphenated name. you can kid yourself all you want but two girls and no boys means your dads line ends. Still you can carry forward a new pretentious name from now on eh!
Comment by Sean — February 4, 2009 @ 10:22 am PST
His line doesn’t end — his daughters carry just as much of his DNA as any sons would. It’s only the social convention of carrying on the father’s name that creates this preposterous notion of his line “ending”.
Comment by Sterling Camden — February 4, 2009 @ 11:08 am PST
This is ridiculous! A name doesn’t define a person - it is what is inside that matters. I am proud of the fact that my parents used my mother’s maiden name as a middle name for my brother and myself. I am also proud of the fact that my husband is more open-minded than a lot of the people posting here. He is not ashamed to have taken on a hyphenated name - in fact, it makes him beam with pride to show our unity. Leave the ego at the church steps. The only wrong decision in a marriage is one that has not been made together. Everyone has different views on life and the point of sites like this should be to exchange opinions and expose us to different views on life and not to tell people off for very personal decisions.
Comment by Alice — February 5, 2009 @ 6:05 am PST
TimC, “moved from your father’s family to your husband’s” and “acceptance of this transfer”? So glad to know that you still consider women to be property. Perhaps you should move to Afghanistan…
Also, I understand the concept behind two becoming one, but why does the woman always have to become the man?
Comment by Steph — February 6, 2009 @ 3:23 pm PST
Hello TD, think you ought to research your opinion a little more before choosing it as your emotion.
I hyphenate my name, not out of respect to my father (whom I havent seen in years), but because its how I think about myself, its how I talk to myself, matter of fact, people call my name and maiden surname as one name. By taking up a new name and leaving my old surname, I become someone else entirely, and that feels pretentious to me.
I dont hyphenate online though, so I guess you and I can still get along!
Comment by Seun — February 9, 2009 @ 7:47 am PST
i will stick to my guns and will always be of the opinion it is PRETENTIOUS however it is dressed up.
Comment by Sean — February 9, 2009 @ 12:06 pm PST
You know what’s pretentious, Sean? You, pretending to be omniscient about people’s motivations for what they want to be called.
Comment by Sterling Camden — February 9, 2009 @ 12:16 pm PST
its an argument that cant be won and therefore is pointless just like the hyphenation so i will ignore this post but thankfully others will continue it in my absense.
Comment by Sean — February 9, 2009 @ 12:27 pm PST
Hi Seun - I’m curious what you mean by “think you ought to research your opinion a little more before choosing it as your emotion.” Research my opinion?
Comment by TDavid — February 10, 2009 @ 7:35 pm PST
My husband and I both hyphenated our last names when we got married, and we have learned to defend our decision quite capably against those less open-minded folks. One of the main objections that we hear has been mentioned here: what happens when two people with hyphenated last names get married? I wrote a paper on this problem in college, and have yet to hear any good rebuttals to it.
Here it is: Sarah Smith-Jones marries Michael Mill-Davis. The female (Sarah) brings her mother’s part of her current hyphenated last name to her new married name, and the male (Michael) brings his father’s part of his current hyphenated name to his new married name. Thus, they become Sarah and Michael Jones-Davis or Sarah and Michael Davis-Jones. Then, their children will have that hyphenated name as well, and when they marry they will continue the pattern.
This has the capability of continuing over generations, and would be just as effective as our current (sexist) system of the woman adopting the man’s last name upon marriage. Sure, forms would have to be changed to accommodate this societal shift, but it would be efficient and egalitarian.
In regards to the first post, I see no significant con of hyphenated names. In fact, removing the linguistic inequalities that pervade our society would be a great good. I think some people regard this practice as “pretentious” because they either consciously or subconsciously associate it with feminist men and women, who they find to threaten their comfortable status quo. The most progressive people are the ones that move society forward, and are usually regarded with some degree of distaste by the intellectually lazy.
Comment by Christine — March 19, 2009 @ 8:51 pm PST
Christine - thank you for the comment and an interesting idea there. But sorry, have to take exception with the whole “intellectually lazy” and “less open minded” cracks
Just because someone might think your hyphenated name is pretentious doesn’t even come close to making them less open-minded. Quite a stretch.
Curiosly you aren’t carrying over your hyphenated name to the internet which was one of my original complaints in the post. I’m curious why the inconsistency? I still can’t see any good reason to use a hyphenated name on the internet, can you? Since you aren’t, I’m wondering if you agree.
Comment by TDavid — March 19, 2009 @ 9:02 pm PST
It kind of does make them less open-minded though. Why? Because most of them have an emotional or religious reaction to it, not a legitimate and reasoned complaint against it. All the people that have had a problem with our decision have been extremely religious and conservative: the epitome of closed-minded. A good example of this type is the Bible-thumper a few posts up… ugh. Makes my feminist skin crawl to know that people like that permeate our society. Bottom line: I haven’t seen any good reasons to think that it is “pretentious” to want to include both persons in a marriage as opposed to expecting one person to be symbolically consumed by the other. Language is extremely meaningful in society, and its patterns and uses should not be determined or taken lightly.
And I only used my first name because a) I agree with Ockham’s razor and b) my first name fulfills the same function that my entire name would; namely, making me distinguishable from the other posters.
Comment by Christine — March 19, 2009 @ 9:47 pm PST
Still can’t see any argument for this, pretentious for most cases. Look at the names that are hyphenated rarely do you see names that dont work in the pretentious world they have to have that ring to them . Smith is very commonly hyphenated as its such a common name. No doubt some can find debatable reasons for carrying on this pretentious custom but they are kidding only themselves.
Comment by Sean — March 20, 2009 @ 1:48 am PST
Why have a middle or last name then, Sean? Surely it must be pretentious to have more than one. If it was good enough for Moses, it should be good enough for you.
Comment by Sterling Camden — March 20, 2009 @ 8:51 am PST
middle name is given by parents as is the first name, only pretentious prats feel the need to change their name later. All very Hyacinth Bucket if you ask me, So moses hyphenated his name thats a new one on me….before you reply i know what you meant but dont get the connection hence the sarcy response. Why not go the hole hog and ignore the name you were born with and change it by deed pole, it amounts to the same thing but probably slightly less pretentious and certainly less irritating. No point in me trying to explain further as those with the desperate need for such pretentious names etc will always find a way to justify it (to themselves only) so i will leave it there and ignore any further responses.
how about we all become John Smith then or just john…….pointless I know but i thought i would join you in the pointless statement game.
Comment by Sean — March 20, 2009 @ 9:02 am PST
In response to Christine’s post,
From reading your post it appears to me that you in fact are the closed-minded individual. It is apparent that you need to place yourself on a pedestal and look down on anyone who does not share your views. You blatant name calling and poor associations are proof of this. An “emotional” or “religious” reason is a perfectly acceptable reason not to agree with the hyphenated name. You wrongly presume that “ALL” people who disagree with you are “close-minded”, “conservative”, “religious” “bible thumpers.” These are your opinions. Therefore, using your logic, feminists are man-hating, spiked boy haircut, combat boot wearing lesbians.
Like it or not, agree with it or not, the bible and religion are facts of life. Just because you disagree with the morals and values they provide, and how people have used and interpreted them for marriage and life as a society isn’t going to make them go away. It is quite apparent that you don’t know God and don’t understand the bible. Marriage is and has always been a testament to God making a man and a woman come together as one in His eyes. Hence, the name changing to one. I know I am not going to change your mind and I am not trying to. However, I suggest that you reflect upon yourself and see how close-minded YOU are. Like it or not this country was founded largely for religious reasons. Your ancestors came here to seek freedom to practice their religion, which now a days seems to be taken away more and more by the left wing, ACLU supporting, bible denouncing, liberals. They seem to be doing a great job. Do what you want to do but don’t call me names,preach your crap, or force me to change because you don’t like it.
Comment by Robert — March 20, 2009 @ 2:40 pm PST
I can’t speak for Christine, but personally I welcome reasonable discussion. However, if someone doesn’t have the brains to think for themselves and has to resort to the authority of the Bible (a human document that contains many errors and contradictions) then I know that any discussion we have will be pointless.
Just because religion is a “fact of life” doesn’t mean that I have to agree with it or promote it, any more than I need to agree with or promote any other mental disorder.
Comment by Sterling Camden — March 21, 2009 @ 4:39 pm PST
have to agree with you there Camden, still think its pretentious but the bible stuff really is a red herring and opens up a whole new debate.
Comment by Sean — March 21, 2009 @ 4:42 pm PST
sorry Sterling i used the wrong name……. how ironic lol
Comment by Sean — March 21, 2009 @ 4:44 pm PST
Comment by Sterling Camden — March 21, 2009 @ 4:47 pm PST
Here is what a hyphenated surname tells the world about you:
That your Mommy’s testicles are much bigger than your Daddy’s.
That is not an image I would want my child to forced to portray.
Comment by ketcherelli — April 26, 2009 @ 4:55 pm PST
That’s not what it tells the world - it’s what your small mind infers from it.
Comment by Sterling Camden — April 27, 2009 @ 8:59 am PST
Sure, whatever you say Sterling…
However, whether you like it or not,that is exactly how women with hypenated surnames, and their emasculated male ‘life partners’ are seen by those of us in the right thinking world.
Comment by ketcherelli — April 29, 2009 @ 10:53 pm PST
Well, I really don’t like the concept. However, I guess if it is discussed and agreed upon prior to marriage then that’s the couple’s business, but don’t expect everyone to like it.
If its not discussed but just assumed by the woman that she is going to not take her new husband’s name then its a slap in the face to the man. The common reasons I hear for doing this are, “ease”, “giving respect to father”, “business reasons”, etc…
It is my opinion that these are all pretty weak reasons. It would be analogous to a man dropping a prenuptial agreement bomb just before marriage or buying a fake diamond engagement ring. Imagine how upset the bride to be would be? Especially, if the excuse from him was well “its just easier” , “it just in case we get divorced”, “business reasons (its cheaper)”.
Just me 2 cents
Comment by barbara — April 30, 2009 @ 4:45 am PST
@ketcherelli — I know I shouldn’t feed the troll, but “right thinking world” seems pretty apt. Far to the right.
Comment by Sterling Camden — April 30, 2009 @ 8:37 am PST
Ah, Sterling, nice to see you are finally catching on! If you think being far to the right is something to apologize for, then you are indeed out in left field.
By the way, Barbara’s comments above are bang on.
Comment by ketcherelli — May 1, 2009 @ 5:37 am PST
barbara - prenups are an entirely different conversation than hyphenated names. I don’t feel prenups are pretentious as a whole and am in favor of them in certain circumstances. If enough money is involved, neither a man or woman should be able to just marry into it and then get a divorce a short amount of time later and take claim to an unreasonable amount of money for ‘living expenses’ or whatever. Money does weird things to some (most?) people.
To the others who have commented - thank you.
I do see that there are a couple logical reasons to use a hyphenated name listed in the comments above offline, but I still see no logical reasons to use them online save for legal reasons at a site obtaining legal information. So almost a year later and 60 comments including this one, I’m going with hyphenated names not being pretentious offline in some cases and pretentious online unless used for legal name purposes.
So if your name is Jack Jones-Johnson or Jill Smith-Sampson don’t be upset or offended if I refer to you in short as Jack or Jill
Comment by TDavid — May 1, 2009 @ 7:28 am PST
TDavid - now that’s one of the most sensible comments in the whole thread. Thanks for the revisit and the sumup. You clearly hit a nerve on the Internet with this post. (as a google http://www.google.com/search?q=hyphenated+name will tell you). I’m still not sure why people care so much (esp those without one), but there it is.
(and you can call me whatever you like, as long as it’s reasonably polite).
P.S. Have enjoyed reading about your new business & community efforts — good luck with those.
Comment by WillG-H — May 1, 2009 @ 8:18 am PST
It isn’t all about business, money or balls. It is about unity and equality. I’m sorry for anyone who doesn’t have that sort of understanding relationship.
Comment by Alice — May 2, 2009 @ 3:50 am PST
While this topic seems to be closed, I wanted to weigh in because I’m 8 1/2 months pregnant with a boy who is the son of an only boy who is the son of an only boy. We have a daughter as well, and we hyphenated her last name because I couldn’t bear to do to her what my parents did to me– which is give me my father’s last name (along with my 6 siblings), and virtually ignore my mother and her side of the family my whole childhood. While you might wonder why I didn’t adopt my mother’s name, etc. I think the only reason I can give is familiarity. You get use to something–
For me, I kept my name. I think it’s lost on a lot of folks religious or not, that women actually CHANGE their name to their new husband’s name. They have to fill out documents and pay money and actually CHANGE it. You can comment all you want about how “I’d hate a woman who couldn’t accept what I could give her,” etc., but the fact is, if it’s not such a big deal then why don’t you try it? I tried adopting my husband’s name for several months before I realized I felt too different with that different name. Words are powerful, as Christine said. It had taken me 23 years to get where I was when we married in 2001. I was a chameleon, taking on new identities, etc. all the time. I was an actress, a writer– and to finally feel more solid and then CHANGE what I was called, how people identified me through language was a big deal for me. HUGE. It’s not such a big deal to me today, but seriously– it’s really nobody’s business that I’ve kept my last name or that I want my name incorporated into my childrens’ names. Does this make me pretentious? I dunno. I can tell you that after a year of pregnancy and a couple years of nursing and working as well as going to school AND being a full-time mom, I don’t give a fuck whether you think it’s pretentious or not. I’ve earned the right to determine what I think is the right course– and it is simply different when you have your mother’s name as part of your own– different in how you view her side of the family as being part of who you are, etc.
p.s. I told my husband ultimately I’d CHANGE my last name and utilize his, if he would legally CHANGE his as well and incorporate my last name into his– so that he’d have his first name (A) and his middle name (B) and then my last name as another middle (C) and then his last name (D). Just for legal purposes. I mean, it’d never even come up– it’d just be on very official documents. I thought this more than fair. He refused. We love each other and we are accepting of what we’ve chosen together– but seriously, if a man can’t do this then I think he has an inkling of how difficult it is to change a name that means an identity for many people. Tradition should be re-examined.
Comment by Diana — May 9, 2009 @ 7:27 am PST
Oh, I was going to add that I was researching what others think of the hyphenation problems– which there are a few– the marriage one for instance for kids. I found a great answer to that and always assumed our kids could drop a name if they wished. But the carrying on of my husband’s name is a bit of an issue– he doesn’t care, but I wonder if it does something (even though this male only last-name passing on tradition is prejudice) to a man’s ego if he can’t has his name as sole last name– as well as pass on his sole last name. I’m to a point where I don’t care as much and have offered him to just name our son with his last name rather than hyphenate. But this leads to the question, what about our daughter who has a hyphenated name? I have my own and my husband has his own– so I’ve sort of thought of changing hers as well. But she’s nearly 6 now– so what to do? It’s a complicated question and there are plenty of feelings involved. So definitely don’t reply to this if you can’t realize that names are personal decisions and not meant to be pretentious– they’re just meant to convey the union of the family and all of its components.
What’s pretentious? Not recognizing that if you’ve never been in this position of being pressured to change something you’re attached to in the name of tradition and/or religion then you really don’t have much of value to say to those who have.
Comment by Diana — May 9, 2009 @ 7:34 am PST
Hear hear, Diana. The practice of adopting the husband’s last name comes from an era in which all households were identified only by the male, who also owned all the property. In democratic or representative governments, he was the only one allowed to vote. In some cultures, he was the only one allowed to speak in public. Those days are long gone, thankfully. Calling the entire family by only the name of the husband is just as archaic as if we called the United States a kingdom.
Comment by Sterling Camden — May 11, 2009 @ 9:03 am PST
why not go the whole hog then and make up any name you fancy, why bother with the hyphenation when you can make up an even more pretentious nmae with no restrictions on how ridiculous it is.
Signed
Phar phar phar phar pipipick von knobhead
Comment by Sean — May 11, 2009 @ 9:10 am PST
It isn’t about being pretentious or imaginative. It’s about not being patriarchal.
Comment by Sterling Camden — May 11, 2009 @ 9:25 am PST
yeah right….kid yourself all you like . You will never accept it and all those pretentious people (men and women) can live in your little pretentious bubble enjoying your little hyphen. Its amazing how few names that dont sound right hyphenated are hyphenated, why because in the pretentious world even they have naming rules ie if it sounds awful hyphenated then its a bad idea.
Comment by Sean — May 11, 2009 @ 9:31 am PST
Sean, I think the basic point is– who cares? Why do you care so much what other people choose to call themselves? If you want to be Phar phar phar phar pipipick von knobhead, so be it. I can live with the fact that not everyone respects mine and my husband’s decisions. I don’t really care. It’s none of your business. What I find interesting is that the folks on this forum who gave their two cents with an open mind and were able to clearly articulate a rational explanation for their feelings and thoughts had me weighing in and thinking about their opinions– reading their comments was a worthwhile way to spend my time. Other comments (including some of yours), however, seem to be lacking. Your inability to concisely convey what you’re trying to say, in addition to your poor grammar, has made it difficult for me to take your comments seriously. You just seem pissed off and attached to an idea because it’s “right” and not necessarily because you have a well-founded argument.
For me, in keeping my last name I’m not necessarily trying to make a political statement. I just like my name. I like my heritage. I like seeing my Scandinavian roots show through in my daughter carrying that name along with her father’s name. I just didn’t want to feel lost in my marriage– I wanted to contribute to my marriage by being a complete individual. And for me, separating myself from the name I’d used all my life was an important aspect which I felt would hinder my furthering that goal.
Comment by Diana — May 11, 2009 @ 9:14 pm PST
i think you are right i am spending too much time (more than a few seconds is a waste) on this. After posting this i will unsubscribe. We have a naming convention it works it keeps things simple but as is your right you can ignore it. Your reasons are your own and in your head are valid but likewise I am entitled to have an opinion. I still feel pretentious pretty much sums it up no point in going into the where and why’s as you will find a way in your own mind to justify it .
I can go on living not worrying about such pretentious things and carry on smirking childishly every time i see one of those little hyphens…now all I need to do is un-tick the subscribe and leave you to carry on the fight for hyphens, you have an ever increasing band of followers to support you maybe set up a club or website.
Comment by Sean — May 12, 2009 @ 2:09 am PST
I elected to add my husbands last name to my own last name. There is no hyphen, I simply added the name to the end of my name. There were several reasons I did this. The most profoud reason for me is that I came from a large family who had my last name, and now due mostly to death, my Uncle and myself are the only two members of my family which have my last name. When I was old enough to realize his and to learn that my Uncle would not have any children of his own, I decided that our last name would end with me. I did no have my fathers last name for variety of reasos, but having and keeping my name makes me feel connected to family I never met and a mother who passed on before I had a chance to get to know her. Originally, I had not planned to change my name at all, however, during our pre-marital counseling sessions, my husband admitted to me the level importance me taking his name truly was to him. In all the years, we had been together, he had never expressed this. He said, he didnt mind if I just added it, but I had to do something, I did not hesitate second to assure him that I would add the name.
To avoid confusion I simply added the name thereby not changing the location of my charts in medical office, or any other type of office.
My name is long, I will admit that…but typically I do not include my midde name, thereby making my name just as long as anyone else with a first, middle and last name.
The other resons, which seems to be the reason people agree with the most is that I work in a society where we are addressed my our initials, if I would have taken my husbands last name and dropped my own last name, My initials would have become SOL…and I just didt want to deal with that either!
Comment by Susan — May 18, 2009 @ 10:55 am PST
@Sterling - “It’s about not being patriarchal.” Please tell me what is essentially wrong with being patriarchal. Is matriarchy better? Perhaps you meant that society should be neither?
Comment by Gracy — June 17, 2009 @ 7:03 pm PST
Why does it need to be either one? We’re way beyond the days when women needed a man to protect and provide for them. We don’t need to go in the other direction and make men dependent on women. We should each be able to stand on our own two feet.
Comment by Sterling Camden — June 18, 2009 @ 9:11 am PST
I think it’s pretentious. It’s just a way of asking for attention. I think it really screws up the kids, too. That’s hard to explain to your friends at school, I suppose. But, to each his-her own.
Comment by MAC — September 21, 2009 @ 8:53 am PST
Here’s my dilemma. I’m getting married to a man who took on his grandfather’s last name since he never had any sons to carry it on. Now his name is blank-blank. I am having somewhat of an issue with this because I pretty much have no choice. This forces me to either keep my last name (which becomes confusing once we have children since both their parents would have different last names), not to mention the children will be forced to grow up with hyphenated names which they might not want, or take his hyphenated last name which forces me to take on his two family names and completely neglect my birth name. I don’t really find this fair. Why should I give up my family name and carry on both of his family names? It’s my family joining his, not just his side…..Thoughts?
Comment by Mils — January 5, 2010 @ 11:05 pm PST
Mils, it is a confusing situation. I don’t know if this will help but I’ll tell you what happened in my family. My mother was an only child and her father was against her changing her name, but she did… with the promise that any children would have her maiden name as a middle name - which is what happened. When I got married my husband we both decided to hyphenate our names as a sign of equality. I don’t know where you are based, but in Scotland you don’t have to officially change your name and can use any name as long as you aren’t committing fraud. I alternate between my maiden name, hyphenated one and husband’s according to the situation. If I were in your place I would try to keep your family name in some shape or form but reach a compromise. Just an idea but what if he took his grandfather’s name as a middle name and you both hyphenated your surnames? Everyone would have the same surname and the kids could have a family middle name too. If you think further into the future and you have daughters who want to change their names, they will still be carrying on his grandfather’s name. I don’t know if this is helpful, but I’ll be interested to see what you come up with.
Comment by Chippie — January 7, 2010 @ 3:47 am PST
Mils, I’m facing the same problem. In theory, I don’t object to taking my future husband’s last name. My maiden name isn’t that great, and I like his well enough. But the thought of our children having both sides of his family represented and no part of my own really bothers me. I don’t want us all having different last names, though. I suggested we revert to his father’s last name, but he doesn’t like that idea because it’s not the name he was raised with. I don’t know what to do, and I irrationally resent his parents for putting us in this situation in the first place. It’s definitely made me dislike hyphenated last names; they’re far too complicated.
Comment by Tip — February 18, 2010 @ 2:01 pm PST