Comments on: Joss Whedon on the writer’s strike and profession http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/ Technology, music, video, art, news, reviews and muse on the web Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:20:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Tony Warne http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672754 Tony Warne Mon, 03 Dec 2007 06:11:20 +0000 http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672754 I suppose its hard to truly appreciate unless you are involved, but I do feel that eventually , one has to say "enough is enough"! The pay is insufficient, I would rather not work than be forced to recieve renummeration that is not adequate. I can however see and appreciate your point. I guess that it boils down to "ones' cut off point". The most important point is that the door for negotiation be open....on both sides.....a long drawn out fight is not going to help anyone. I suppose its hard to truly appreciate unless you are involved, but I do feel that eventually , one has to say “enough is enough”! The pay is insufficient, I would rather not work than be forced to recieve renummeration that is not adequate.

I can however see and appreciate your point.

I guess that it boils down to “ones’ cut off point”.

The most important point is that the door for negotiation be open….on both sides…..a long drawn out fight is not going to help anyone.

]]> By: dan http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672724 dan Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:12:26 +0000 http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672724 Tony, No offense but I think you miss my point. Pay that is considered below the desired amount is better by far than no pay. Ask the folks at NBC/Jay Leno, SNL. For every writer gig in Hollywood there are 150 independents who would be delighted to take those spots for less pay. Why are these WGA folks so incredibly naive. I'm completely amazed by this strike. If it continues, I'll wager that the WGA will find locked doors greeting them when they go for their next writing situation and the union will be busted. The point is not at all about "fair wages", the point is about retaining a writer's union that is viable. The longer the strike continues, the more likely that management will move to break the union. Folks on the picket line ought to appreciate what they have, go back to work, and negotiate for a better situation. Not to understand this is folly. Dan Tony,
No offense but I think you miss my point. Pay that is considered below the desired amount is better by far than no pay. Ask the folks at NBC/Jay Leno, SNL. For every writer gig in Hollywood there are 150 independents who would be delighted to take those spots for less pay. Why are these WGA folks so incredibly naive. I’m completely amazed by this strike. If it continues, I’ll wager that the WGA will find locked doors greeting them when they go for their next writing situation and the union will be busted. The point is not at all about “fair wages”, the point is about retaining a writer’s union that is viable. The longer the strike continues, the more likely that management will move to break the union. Folks on the picket line ought to appreciate what they have, go back to work, and negotiate for a better situation. Not to understand this is folly.
Dan

]]> By: Tony Warne http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672634 Tony Warne Sun, 02 Dec 2007 01:26:44 +0000 http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672634 I think without doubt they are entitled to fair pay. It's the same old adage of the few at the top getting millions and the average joe down bottom, getting pennies. I hope it goes well for "The Little FEllas". I think without doubt they are entitled to fair pay. It’s the same old adage of the few at the top getting millions and the average joe down bottom, getting pennies.

I hope it goes well for “The Little FEllas”.

]]> By: Dan http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672132 Dan Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:44:52 +0000 http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672132 Quick addition: I should have said "recently" rather than "just" in my post about SNL. Sorry about that. 8^> Dan Quick addition:
I should have said “recently” rather than “just” in my post about SNL. Sorry about that.
8^>
Dan

]]> By: Dan http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672126 Dan Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:36:38 +0000 http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672126 TDavid, It was just posted on the web that NBC has fired the entire writing staff of SNL. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312073,00.html This is bad for the staff, of course, and very bad for the Guild. With Carson Daly breaking ranks and now this move from SNL, the Guild is in serious trouble. Now, if SNL hires independents and is successful, the Guild will be seen as superfluous and difficult. One could readily see a lockout of this union if this strike continues for a lengthy time. This could break the union itself. This is why this strike is foolish and self-defeating, in my opinion. I agree with you that folks in the creative world must take this moment to think of alternatives just as some music folks are now promoting and selling their music outside of the major labels. The internet is in a sense the great equalizer. The web runs on content. The web's foundation is writers. The internet is the greatest opportunity for writers since the printing press. I hope that the Guild goes back to the table, and ends the strike soon. Writing is difficult enough. Dan TDavid,
It was just posted on the web that NBC has fired the entire writing staff of SNL.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312073,00.html
This is bad for the staff, of course, and very bad for the Guild. With Carson Daly breaking ranks and now this move from SNL, the Guild is in serious trouble. Now, if SNL hires independents and is successful, the Guild will be seen as superfluous and difficult. One could readily see a lockout of this union if this strike continues for a lengthy time. This could break the union itself. This is why this strike is foolish and self-defeating, in my opinion. I agree with you that folks in the creative world must take this moment to think of alternatives just as some music folks are now promoting and selling their music outside of the major labels. The internet is in a sense the great equalizer. The web runs on content. The web’s foundation is writers. The internet is the greatest opportunity for writers since the printing press. I hope that the Guild goes back to the table, and ends the strike soon. Writing is difficult enough.
Dan

]]> By: TDavid http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672115 TDavid Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:16:59 +0000 http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672115 And BTW, I'm not advocating the WGA be disbanded, I'm simply presenting that as one possible scenario going forward. Writers join these unions, yes? From what I understand that you pretty much can't be an actor in a Hollywood movie without joining SAG which is complete BS, if true. There were a lot more reasons in the past to have unions in Hollywood than there are now. There are more free market opportunities with the web and lots of freelancing gigs. You can even self-publish the next great American novel without spending much money (Lulu). Yeah, you might not have the advertising and promotion budget as the big publishing houses, but there are numerousways to reach a large audience with minimal capital. My advice to writers out of work is use this experience for next time. Don't be caught in this exact situation ever again. Start building your own publishing network. Start now and it will be a lot easier 5, 10, 20 or 30 years from now. And BTW, I’m not advocating the WGA be disbanded, I’m simply presenting that as one possible scenario going forward. Writers join these unions, yes? From what I understand that you pretty much can’t be an actor in a Hollywood movie without joining SAG which is complete BS, if true.

There were a lot more reasons in the past to have unions in Hollywood than there are now. There are more free market opportunities with the web and lots of freelancing gigs. You can even self-publish the next great American novel without spending much money (Lulu). Yeah, you might not have the advertising and promotion budget as the big publishing houses, but there are numerousways to reach a large audience with minimal capital.

My advice to writers out of work is use this experience for next time. Don’t be caught in this exact situation ever again. Start building your own publishing network. Start now and it will be a lot easier 5, 10, 20 or 30 years from now.

]]> By: TDavid http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672113 TDavid Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:10:06 +0000 http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672113 Dan, you added a qualifier: "unless at the very top tier," -- that's my point, those who break through at that level are not replaceable. Technically can any person's <i>position</i> be replaced? Yes, absolutely. But without their name in the credits, what do you have? A script penned by whom? Writers should see this strike as the calling card to get their own gig together and make their own careers. The web is a great equalizer for those brave enough to put both feet in and see what they can make of it. Dan, you added a qualifier: “unless at the very top tier,” — that’s my point, those who break through at that level are not replaceable. Technically can any person’s position be replaced? Yes, absolutely. But without their name in the credits, what do you have? A script penned by whom? Writers should see this strike as the calling card to get their own gig together and make their own careers.

The web is a great equalizer for those brave enough to put both feet in and see what they can make of it.

]]> By: Dan http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672094 Dan Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:49:21 +0000 http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672094 TDavid, Thank you for your response. Sounds like we are essentially in agreement. Remember PATCO, those highly trained Air Traffic Controllers? Reagan broke that union, despite the common understanding that they would be difficult to replace. Sounds like you are advocating the end of WGA. I am not advocating it, I am just suggesting that this may very well be the result of this strike if it is not concluded rapidly. Even with highly marketable writers like those you mention, those folks are not irreplaceable. Being "difficult to work with" in Hollywood has well-known results, yes? Regardless of their importance, unless at the very top tier, folks who are "difficult to work with" will simply not get any work. Remember Shawn Young? Is there another Shawn Young? No. Was she beautiful and talented? Yes. Is she irreplaceable? Of course she is, as an individual. But there are many, many actresses who are beautiful and talented. But, according to her own recent magazine interviews she is not working much now as she got a perhaps inaccurate reputation for "being tough to work with". There may be a place for and value of the WGA, but if they break the very enterprises that they purport to support then they will certainly have made themselves "difficult to work with" with all the attendant results that that reputation brings. I love writers, but I hate writer hubris. Dan TDavid,
Thank you for your response. Sounds like we are essentially in agreement. Remember PATCO, those highly trained Air Traffic Controllers? Reagan broke that union, despite the common understanding that they would be difficult to replace. Sounds like you are advocating the end of WGA. I am not advocating it, I am just suggesting that this may very well be the result of this strike if it is not concluded rapidly. Even with highly marketable writers like those you mention, those folks are not irreplaceable. Being “difficult to work with” in Hollywood has well-known results, yes? Regardless of their importance, unless at the very top tier, folks who are “difficult to work with” will simply not get any work. Remember Shawn Young? Is there another Shawn Young? No. Was she beautiful and talented? Yes. Is she irreplaceable? Of course she is, as an individual. But there are many, many actresses who are beautiful and talented. But, according to her own recent magazine interviews she is not working much now as she got a perhaps inaccurate reputation for “being tough to work with”. There may be a place for and value of the WGA, but if they break the very enterprises that they purport to support then they will certainly have made themselves “difficult to work with” with all the attendant results that that reputation brings. I love writers, but I hate writer hubris.
Dan

]]> By: TDavid http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672080 TDavid Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:20:52 +0000 http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672080 On "Nobody is irreplaceable" -- I disagree, Dan. How many Joss Whedon's are there? There's one. How many Stephen King's? Danielle Steele? How many of you and me? While I understand you are with the writers, it is these kind of statements that start unions for groups of workers when frankly I don't think unions are that necessary in most cases. One might be able to get people to type out storylines, but the good writers are not so easily replaced just like good framers in the construction business or good plumbers. Jennifer Aniston can command the money she does on the silver screen because of writers and her talent, not only her talent. The web has already presented writers with an opportunity to establish themselves around the traditional workflow, just look at the music business and what artists are starting to wake up and realize. The internet can level the playing field with publishers. Maybe it's time for these entertainment unions to bust up and Hollywood to have to get its talent from other pools? On “Nobody is irreplaceable” — I disagree, Dan. How many Joss Whedon’s are there? There’s one. How many Stephen King’s? Danielle Steele? How many of you and me? While I understand you are with the writers, it is these kind of statements that start unions for groups of workers when frankly I don’t think unions are that necessary in most cases. One might be able to get people to type out storylines, but the good writers are not so easily replaced just like good framers in the construction business or good plumbers. Jennifer Aniston can command the money she does on the silver screen because of writers and her talent, not only her talent.

The web has already presented writers with an opportunity to establish themselves around the traditional workflow, just look at the music business and what artists are starting to wake up and realize. The internet can level the playing field with publishers.

Maybe it’s time for these entertainment unions to bust up and Hollywood to have to get its talent from other pools?

]]> By: Dan http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672038 Dan Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:07:32 +0000 http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20071128/4973/#comment-672038 This strike is self-defeating, as most strikes are - especially the longer it continues. Members pay union leadership to bargain for them, and get the best deals they can from management. When the membership must leave their work stations to walk the picket line, union leadership has failed. The strike position is the last option, and now there aren't any options left. Negotiating wiht the potentiality of a strike is a position of strength -walking a picket line for weeks/months is not. Nobody is irreplacable. PATCO learned this lesson quite well. The position of strength, the position that builds relationships, and keeps the enterprise itself running is that which negotiates while the membership keeps working. It's a stunning hubris that these folks think that they are not replacable. There are many writers out there not in this union who'd love the opportunity to work in hollywood. If this strike continues they may get their chance. I hope this strike is quickly resolved because, as a writer, I support writers and understand how difficult the work of quality and creative writing truly is. Union leadership should go back to the table, end the strike, and let folks earn their livings while leadership tries to get the best arrangement they can get. Broken agreements, cancelled productions, and shattered professional and personal relationships is no way to run a business. If others follow Carson Daly and cross the picket line, writers might find themselves with a totally unacceptable result: unemployment. And what will the membership say to the union leadership then? This strike is self-defeating, as most strikes are - especially the longer it continues. Members pay union leadership to bargain for them, and get the best deals they can from management. When the membership must leave their work stations to walk the picket line, union leadership has failed. The strike position is the last option, and now there aren’t any options left. Negotiating wiht the potentiality of a strike is a position of strength -walking a picket line for weeks/months is not. Nobody is irreplacable. PATCO learned this lesson quite well. The position of strength, the position that builds relationships, and keeps the enterprise itself running is that which negotiates while the membership keeps working. It’s a stunning hubris that these folks think that they are not replacable. There are many writers out there not in this union who’d love the opportunity to work in hollywood. If this strike continues they may get their chance. I hope this strike is quickly resolved because, as a writer, I support writers and understand how difficult the work of quality and creative writing truly is. Union leadership should go back to the table, end the strike, and let folks earn their livings while leadership tries to get the best arrangement they can get. Broken agreements, cancelled productions, and shattered professional and personal relationships is no way to run a business. If others follow Carson Daly and cross the picket line, writers might find themselves with a totally unacceptable result: unemployment. And what will the membership say to the union leadership then?

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