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	<title>Comments on: Coming Zune defense again</title>
	<link>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/</link>
	<description>Technology, music, video, art, news, reviews and muse on the web</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2</generator>

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		<title>By: Flashing the public, Zune version 2 &#187; Make You Go Hmm</title>
		<link>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-639518</link>
		<author>Flashing the public, Zune version 2 &#187; Make You Go Hmm</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 23:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-639518</guid>
		<description>[...] in November 2006, in response to a Zune bashing review where the reviewer claimed the Zune would be &#8220;dead within six months&#8221; I wrote: if [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] in November 2006, in response to a Zune bashing review where the reviewer claimed the Zune would be &#8220;dead within six months&#8221; I wrote: if [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Summer almost gone, Zune bashing still in season with ZunePhone parody &#187; Make You Go Hmm</title>
		<link>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-627680</link>
		<author>Summer almost gone, Zune bashing still in season with ZunePhone parody &#187; Make You Go Hmm</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-627680</guid>
		<description>[...] of historical confirmation to one critic, the Zune isn&#8217;t dead and gone &#8220;within six months&#8221; as predicted. Here we are a full eight months later and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] of historical confirmation to one critic, the Zune isn&#8217;t dead and gone &#8220;within six months&#8221; as predicted. Here we are a full eight months later and [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: The Esoterik Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ewww, Microsoft Seems To Have Zune&#8217;d Itself!</title>
		<link>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-354530</link>
		<author>The Esoterik Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ewww, Microsoft Seems To Have Zune&#8217;d Itself!</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 01:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-354530</guid>
		<description>[...] Update 12/2/06: After reading even more on the Zune, and then talking to an iLike friend of mine, T.D., I&#8217;ve had to re-evaluate my feelings on Microsoft&#8217;s Zune. I still won&#8217;t go out and buy the player (It&#8217;s not compatible with Mac anyways) but it seems there are some pro&#8217;s to MS&#8217;s different way of doing things with the Zune. Also, for those who like the subscription model, the Zune Marketplace may be your answer. For further reading, and also in the interest of fairness, visit T.D.&#8217;s blog entry on his experiences with the Zune (he actually has both Zune and iPod 5G!). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Update 12/2/06: After reading even more on the Zune, and then talking to an iLike friend of mine, T.D., I&#8217;ve had to re-evaluate my feelings on Microsoft&#8217;s Zune. I still won&#8217;t go out and buy the player (It&#8217;s not compatible with Mac anyways) but it seems there are some pro&#8217;s to MS&#8217;s different way of doing things with the Zune. Also, for those who like the subscription model, the Zune Marketplace may be your answer. For further reading, and also in the interest of fairness, visit T.D.&#8217;s blog entry on his experiences with the Zune (he actually has both Zune and iPod 5G!). [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: TDavid</title>
		<link>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-350436</link>
		<author>TDavid</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-350436</guid>
		<description>Hi brandon - thank you for weighing in.

You wrote: "I believe when he says the Zune doesn’t support podcasts, he means the app does not manage and sync podcasts the way iTunes does."

I get that but both Windows Media Player and iTunes have tons of plugins and it's not complicated adding FeedYourZune for those savvy enough to follow podcasts and podcasting. I'm sure if it's that important for their listening that they will seek it out. It also left something to third party developers which Microsoft likes to do. Remember, they also have a vibrant developer community.

Most people interested in podcasts will be able to quickly and easily add the third party app. Perhaps more importantly, the review doesn't mention MP3 anywhere and says that the Zune isn't compatible with Windows Media Player which is inaccurate. How can you review &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; portable music player and not mention that it supports the most popular format out there?

Maybe this is obvious information to you and I, but is it obvious to a parent shopping for their child? A husband shopping for wife or vice versa?

As for the "gift of DLL" comment, I already said that setup on two different computers here with two different OS -- my son's Windows Media Center 2005 machine that has all kinds of different apps and I'm sure conflicts and one of our most used Windows XP Pro machines -- and it didn't require adding any DLL. I'm not sure what was missing on his computer and others who have experienced the same problem, but again, adding a DLL file is not a complicated undertaking in the unfortunate event that this step is required.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi brandon - thank you for weighing in.</p>
<p>You wrote: &#8220;I believe when he says the Zune doesn’t support podcasts, he means the app does not manage and sync podcasts the way iTunes does.&#8221;</p>
<p>I get that but both Windows Media Player and iTunes have tons of plugins and it&#8217;s not complicated adding FeedYourZune for those savvy enough to follow podcasts and podcasting. I&#8217;m sure if it&#8217;s that important for their listening that they will seek it out. It also left something to third party developers which Microsoft likes to do. Remember, they also have a vibrant developer community.</p>
<p>Most people interested in podcasts will be able to quickly and easily add the third party app. Perhaps more importantly, the review doesn&#8217;t mention MP3 anywhere and says that the Zune isn&#8217;t compatible with Windows Media Player which is inaccurate. How can you review <i>any</i> portable music player and not mention that it supports the most popular format out there?</p>
<p>Maybe this is obvious information to you and I, but is it obvious to a parent shopping for their child? A husband shopping for wife or vice versa?</p>
<p>As for the &#8220;gift of DLL&#8221; comment, I already said that setup on two different computers here with two different OS &#8212; my son&#8217;s Windows Media Center 2005 machine that has all kinds of different apps and I&#8217;m sure conflicts and one of our most used Windows XP Pro machines &#8212; and it didn&#8217;t require adding any DLL. I&#8217;m not sure what was missing on his computer and others who have experienced the same problem, but again, adding a DLL file is not a complicated undertaking in the unfortunate event that this step is required.</p>
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		<title>By: TDavid</title>
		<link>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-350431</link>
		<author>TDavid</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-350431</guid>
		<description>Thank you for stopping by and reading my rebuttal, Andy (hopefully I can talk to you on a first name basis, now). I still think you might be giving the average prospective Zune customer or undecided shopper (bad, bad, bad habit calling them "users") some disrespect when you throw out blanket statements like: "It’s incompatible with WMP."

Unfortunately, playlists from iTunes aren't transferable to WMP, Napster, Zune, etc. It's too bad there isn't a universal playlist format. iTunes does try a bit in this department by outputting as an XML file, but the companies need to get in bed on this one like the GYM trio did on sitemaps for web sites recently. It would be better for all of us, no matter what portable music device we're using.

I like the fact with your writing that you don't just want to throw out boring feature comparisons and like to get down to the brass tacks of what real people actually care about. Only in your review you completely missed a very passionate audience that the Zune fits well, I'm guessing because you don't have/play an Xbox 360 or use the Live Marketplace. 

I have many more thoughts, so many in fact that I decided to put them in a new post rather than fill up the comment area here. I invite you to follow this link for my complete response:
http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061127/3988/

Just to reiterate, from a fellow writer's perspective I enjoyed your review passion, even if I disagreed with most of the underlying substance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for stopping by and reading my rebuttal, Andy (hopefully I can talk to you on a first name basis, now). I still think you might be giving the average prospective Zune customer or undecided shopper (bad, bad, bad habit calling them &#8220;users&#8221;) some disrespect when you throw out blanket statements like: &#8220;It’s incompatible with WMP.&#8221;</p>
<p>Unfortunately, playlists from iTunes aren&#8217;t transferable to WMP, Napster, Zune, etc. It&#8217;s too bad there isn&#8217;t a universal playlist format. iTunes does try a bit in this department by outputting as an XML file, but the companies need to get in bed on this one like the GYM trio did on sitemaps for web sites recently. It would be better for all of us, no matter what portable music device we&#8217;re using.</p>
<p>I like the fact with your writing that you don&#8217;t just want to throw out boring feature comparisons and like to get down to the brass tacks of what real people actually care about. Only in your review you completely missed a very passionate audience that the Zune fits well, I&#8217;m guessing because you don&#8217;t have/play an Xbox 360 or use the Live Marketplace. </p>
<p>I have many more thoughts, so many in fact that I decided to put them in a new post rather than fill up the comment area here. I invite you to follow this link for my complete response:<br />
<a href="http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061127/3988/">http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061127/3988/</a></p>
<p>Just to reiterate, from a fellow writer&#8217;s perspective I enjoyed your review passion, even if I disagreed with most of the underlying substance.</p>
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		<title>By: Customers vs. users and being accused of astroturfing &#187; Make You Go Hmm</title>
		<link>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-350420</link>
		<author>Customers vs. users and being accused of astroturfing &#187; Make You Go Hmm</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-350420</guid>
		<description>[...] Yesterday I wrote a detailed rebuttal to Andy Ihnatko&#8217;s kevlar-piercing Zune review that made the rounds, and somebody sent it to him and he took time to stop by and comment personally in detail. I encourage you to follow that link and read his pensive reply before continuing with this post. I elevated my response to his comment to a new post because it highlighted several additional points that I think are important enough to cover in a new post. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Yesterday I wrote a detailed rebuttal to Andy Ihnatko&#8217;s kevlar-piercing Zune review that made the rounds, and somebody sent it to him and he took time to stop by and comment personally in detail. I encourage you to follow that link and read his pensive reply before continuing with this post. I elevated my response to his comment to a new post because it highlighted several additional points that I think are important enough to cover in a new post. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Ihnatko</title>
		<link>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-350341</link>
		<author>Andy Ihnatko</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-350341</guid>
		<description>Somebody sent me a link to your post, recommending it as an excellent rebuttal to my review. I sure agree. I've always felt that a tech review should be no different than a movie review...reflecting the opinions of a real human, instead of being a dry comparison-table of features and specs. So I'm always happy to see folks representing the other side.

I do think you misunderstood parts of the review, though. You're right that I didn't point out the strengths of the Zune (like the device's clean interface, its nice FM tuner, and support of AAC). I had a limited amount of space and I thought it was more important to be crystal-clear on why I disliked the Zune so much rather than talk about features that in no way mitigated the negatives.

My chief problem with the Zune is that even in a world without the iPod, it's just not a good buy. It's incompatible with WMP, and (from the POV of the user) it doesn't have to be. There's no advantage to the Zune software, and it means that if I have more than one player in my house (which is a v.popular setup; I maintain a 5G iPod, a Nano, and a Sansa, all via iTunes) I'll need to maintain separate playlists. It's incompatible with every other music store, and (again) it doesn't have to be. You made a good point about subscriptions; I didn't mention that explicitly, but that's precisely what I was thinking of when I mentioned that incompatibility. I love the URGE service (an MTV/MS production) and when it came out earlier in the year, I pointedly said that "subscriptions done right" was a terrific advantage over the iTunes Store.

I still think it's nuts to ask consumer-oriented users to download a separate podcatcher app or plug-in to get podcasts into your Music folder. In 2006, this is like having to get a separate piece of software to rip CDs. Naturally, I'm well-aware that (just like WMP) any files that land in your My Music folder will also land in the Zune's library.

Remove iPods from the picture and I still ask myself why someone would want a Zune instead of a Toshiba Gigabeat and another $40 in your pocket, or a Sansa (and potentially a $100 savings) or any of a dozen others. By my way of thinking, other WMP players offer all of the features of the Zune with none of the drawbacks...and usually for less money. I've talked to plenty of happy Zune users and universally, what brought them to the Zune was the potential that they saw in the player.

I saw it, too. It was the most frustrating thing about writing that review. WiFi could have been a _killer_ feature. If Zune 1.0 was able to do _anything_ useful with it, such as wirelessly syncing to a desktop, I wouldn't have been so hard on it.

And of course, I've read all of the rumors about what might be done with a future firmware upgrade. I have various contacts at Microsoft and I kept firing some of these scenarios at them. Every time, the response was "We have no plans to announce at this time."

Which doesn't mean that they're not planning that stuff. But as-is, given my low opinion of 1.0, I didn't feel that I could in any way encourage people lay out $250 for a sucky 1.0 player, in hopes that some day Uncle Microsoft comes through with a free (and &lt;i&gt;killer&lt;/i&gt;) upgrade.

We both agree on the relationship between MS and the recording industry. To me, this was the final nail in the coffin. It's no joke that Universal et al have been getting increasingly upset with Apple for not caving in; their demands for higher prices, per-iPod kickbacks, and tighter restrictions on content is well-documented. It wouldn't have prevented me from recommending a player that I liked, but as is, it was Strike Four.

If there's anything in my review that I wish I'd re-worded, it's the "dead in six months" line. I'm confident that in six months' time the Zune will have failed to make a serious dent against the iPod or the family of WMP-based players, and will have become irrelevant and mostly forgotten. But not dead and buried, not beyond revival with a terrific 2.0 firmware update. 

Rest assured that I'd like nothing more than to be able to write "Man, 1.0 sucked...but after a free five-minute download and a 20-minute upgrade, the blind can see and the lame can walk!" 

Then again, think about all the other technologies that Microsoft hyped to the rafters, and then were never heard from again. SPOT, anyone? How about UMPC's?

Anyway. Like I said, I thought your post was very illuminating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somebody sent me a link to your post, recommending it as an excellent rebuttal to my review. I sure agree. I&#8217;ve always felt that a tech review should be no different than a movie review&#8230;reflecting the opinions of a real human, instead of being a dry comparison-table of features and specs. So I&#8217;m always happy to see folks representing the other side.</p>
<p>I do think you misunderstood parts of the review, though. You&#8217;re right that I didn&#8217;t point out the strengths of the Zune (like the device&#8217;s clean interface, its nice FM tuner, and support of AAC). I had a limited amount of space and I thought it was more important to be crystal-clear on why I disliked the Zune so much rather than talk about features that in no way mitigated the negatives.</p>
<p>My chief problem with the Zune is that even in a world without the iPod, it&#8217;s just not a good buy. It&#8217;s incompatible with WMP, and (from the POV of the user) it doesn&#8217;t have to be. There&#8217;s no advantage to the Zune software, and it means that if I have more than one player in my house (which is a v.popular setup; I maintain a 5G iPod, a Nano, and a Sansa, all via iTunes) I&#8217;ll need to maintain separate playlists. It&#8217;s incompatible with every other music store, and (again) it doesn&#8217;t have to be. You made a good point about subscriptions; I didn&#8217;t mention that explicitly, but that&#8217;s precisely what I was thinking of when I mentioned that incompatibility. I love the URGE service (an MTV/MS production) and when it came out earlier in the year, I pointedly said that &#8220;subscriptions done right&#8221; was a terrific advantage over the iTunes Store.</p>
<p>I still think it&#8217;s nuts to ask consumer-oriented users to download a separate podcatcher app or plug-in to get podcasts into your Music folder. In 2006, this is like having to get a separate piece of software to rip CDs. Naturally, I&#8217;m well-aware that (just like WMP) any files that land in your My Music folder will also land in the Zune&#8217;s library.</p>
<p>Remove iPods from the picture and I still ask myself why someone would want a Zune instead of a Toshiba Gigabeat and another $40 in your pocket, or a Sansa (and potentially a $100 savings) or any of a dozen others. By my way of thinking, other WMP players offer all of the features of the Zune with none of the drawbacks&#8230;and usually for less money. I&#8217;ve talked to plenty of happy Zune users and universally, what brought them to the Zune was the potential that they saw in the player.</p>
<p>I saw it, too. It was the most frustrating thing about writing that review. WiFi could have been a _killer_ feature. If Zune 1.0 was able to do _anything_ useful with it, such as wirelessly syncing to a desktop, I wouldn&#8217;t have been so hard on it.</p>
<p>And of course, I&#8217;ve read all of the rumors about what might be done with a future firmware upgrade. I have various contacts at Microsoft and I kept firing some of these scenarios at them. Every time, the response was &#8220;We have no plans to announce at this time.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which doesn&#8217;t mean that they&#8217;re not planning that stuff. But as-is, given my low opinion of 1.0, I didn&#8217;t feel that I could in any way encourage people lay out $250 for a sucky 1.0 player, in hopes that some day Uncle Microsoft comes through with a free (and <i>killer</i>) upgrade.</p>
<p>We both agree on the relationship between MS and the recording industry. To me, this was the final nail in the coffin. It&#8217;s no joke that Universal et al have been getting increasingly upset with Apple for not caving in; their demands for higher prices, per-iPod kickbacks, and tighter restrictions on content is well-documented. It wouldn&#8217;t have prevented me from recommending a player that I liked, but as is, it was Strike Four.</p>
<p>If there&#8217;s anything in my review that I wish I&#8217;d re-worded, it&#8217;s the &#8220;dead in six months&#8221; line. I&#8217;m confident that in six months&#8217; time the Zune will have failed to make a serious dent against the iPod or the family of WMP-based players, and will have become irrelevant and mostly forgotten. But not dead and buried, not beyond revival with a terrific 2.0 firmware update. </p>
<p>Rest assured that I&#8217;d like nothing more than to be able to write &#8220;Man, 1.0 sucked&#8230;but after a free five-minute download and a 20-minute upgrade, the blind can see and the lame can walk!&#8221; </p>
<p>Then again, think about all the other technologies that Microsoft hyped to the rafters, and then were never heard from again. SPOT, anyone? How about UMPC&#8217;s?</p>
<p>Anyway. Like I said, I thought your post was very illuminating.</p>
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		<title>By: brandon</title>
		<link>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-350263</link>
		<author>brandon</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 05:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-350263</guid>
		<description>I believe when he says the Zune doesn't support podcasts, he means the app does not manage and sync podcasts the way iTunes does. Which a lot of people might be interested in, and not be willing to go to through the steps you have taken. I believe his review is geared towards looking at the Zune as a Christmas gift, and that means it has to be painless to go from unwrapping to enjoyment. No one wants to give the gift of DLL installing and folder sharing/software downloading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe when he says the Zune doesn&#8217;t support podcasts, he means the app does not manage and sync podcasts the way iTunes does. Which a lot of people might be interested in, and not be willing to go to through the steps you have taken. I believe his review is geared towards looking at the Zune as a Christmas gift, and that means it has to be painless to go from unwrapping to enjoyment. No one wants to give the gift of DLL installing and folder sharing/software downloading.</p>
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		<title>By: Thatedeguy: &#187; iPod Perception vs. Zune Reality</title>
		<link>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-350220</link>
		<author>Thatedeguy: &#187; iPod Perception vs. Zune Reality</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 03:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20061126/3987/#comment-350220</guid>
		<description>[...] What&#8217;s odder still is that Gizmodo, an arguably respected gadget blog, tested the Zune and thought it was &#8220;pretty promising.&#8221; TDavid, a person whom I trust when it comes to honest reviews, twice has defended the Zune. Once at release and again today. When two very respectable reviews like Gizmodo&#8217;s and TDavid&#8217;s basically say that the Zune is fine and that the problems that people like Andy had aren&#8217;t universal, I have to stop and wonder if the Zune is suffering from anything more than the reputation of it&#8217;s manufacturer. Or rather if it is suffering from the reputation of it&#8217;s competitor. The thing is that Apple marketed the iPod about as perfectly as possible. And Apple and the iPod are seen as the &#8220;cool&#8221; toys. The social elite gadgets. And when a item enjoys a perception like that, sometimes reality gets a little skewed. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] What&#8217;s odder still is that Gizmodo, an arguably respected gadget blog, tested the Zune and thought it was &#8220;pretty promising.&#8221; TDavid, a person whom I trust when it comes to honest reviews, twice has defended the Zune. Once at release and again today. When two very respectable reviews like Gizmodo&#8217;s and TDavid&#8217;s basically say that the Zune is fine and that the problems that people like Andy had aren&#8217;t universal, I have to stop and wonder if the Zune is suffering from anything more than the reputation of it&#8217;s manufacturer. Or rather if it is suffering from the reputation of it&#8217;s competitor. The thing is that Apple marketed the iPod about as perfectly as possible. And Apple and the iPod are seen as the &#8220;cool&#8221; toys. The social elite gadgets. And when a item enjoys a perception like that, sometimes reality gets a little skewed. [&#8230;]</p>
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