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July 10, 2006

Ill-advised RSS duplicate post solution in IE7 and Outlook 2007

customer adventures, blogs and podcasting — by TDavid @ 1:45 pm PST

I’m not sure how many folks will be using Outlook 2007 to read RSS feeds (not me, most likely) but for those who do there will be something important to consider: you may not receive updates for already published posts.

I wasn’t aware it was considered a blogging “best practice” to re-post new content in place of updates to single posts, but at least Michael Affronti believes this is so. I think a better practice is to correct misinformation (ASAP with attribution where possible) and add updates for already published posts rather than to have a dozen new posts correcting what was said earlier and forcing readers to click around to get the whole story. If there is enough new information to make a new post, or something that needs in depth clarification then a new post is warranted, but updates are a vital tool for publishers that shouldn’t be handicapped by RSS Reader features.

And what about live blogging? These are typically single posts with timestamp updates. This says nothing about posts which ask reader input so they can be updated along the way (dynamic posts).

Those with Outlook 2007 will see none of these type updates.

Nathan at Inside Microsoft doesn’t think much of this functionality either:

With all due respect, I don’t want to hear about “best practice”. Many, many bloggers issue updates to their posts, as they should, and rely on the RSS readers pushing through the updated items. Being able to update vital news stories brings accountability and transparency. I hate it when Boing Boing leaves up a completely false article, instead following this supposed “best practice” of reposting, since it leaves false articles all over the internet.

This is a good example of RSS aggregator developers attempting to fix a legitimate issue by doing readers an unintentional disservice. They are trying to keep duplicate posts from appearing in the aggregator which is a good thing, dupes most definitely suck, but their solution forgets about the many types of posts with updates.

A real solution
A better soultion would be to give readers more powerful feed filtering functions. Let us decide what we do and don’t want to receive (filter by keyword) with each feed. By default or with a wizard these filters could be set to trim duplicates and notify readers that this was the case.

Microsoft, please change this line of thinking before Outlook 2007 launches. Or at least allow this functionality to be open for change by the user (checkbox option that isn’t buried, hopefully). Re-reading the post I see they also activated this functionality in Internet Explorer 7. Bummer.

Microsoft, please change this behavior and/or at least offer it as a checkbox option by user, otherwise you are going to get an unintended side effect: publishers recommending other RSS readers that do allow for updates to already published posts.

Update 11:41am PST: And here I made a mistake — completely unintentionally — of not linking to Michael’s blog when the post was originally published, so I am now making this update to add this information. Since it’s so close to the publishing time, I normally would just add the hyperlink without a distracting update message like this, but since the whole topic is relevant I’m putting this extra text here which readers using IE7 or Outlook 2007 would never see. They could have gotten the link by visiting Nathan’s blog post, but I had intended to have it linked from the beginning.

Update 4:45pm PST: Michael Affronti stops by (thank you) to offer another post (see link in comments below) clarifying what he meant. He didn’t mean “best practice” as he said, he actually meant “recommended way” but I still think the methodology is fallable. Considering that people might not want their folders to fill up with stuff so they will delete posts as they come in, but that’s not the same thing as saying “I don’t want to know if this content is updated/changed” which from what I understand will be the default behavior. All this means if you had seen my original post here and deleted the post from Outlook you would not have seen either of the two updates above.

Michael points out that Outlook would see it, but it wouldn’t download it because you had deleted after reading the initial message. Sorry Michael, this is still broken behavior. Just download the messages as I recommended above and let the user filter what they do/don’t want.

Note: Michael points out that this option can be disabled by the user. That’s good.

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RSS Feed comments for this post 9 Comments »

  1. I could not agree more! Give us the option. I will not use an aggregator or reader that doesn’t let me see updates.

    Or, of course, we could go back to real cut and paste and print stuff out and then fax a copy of the changes to all of the subscribers to an RSS feed.

    I know there are things that I don’t know. However, IMHO, if MS doesn’t support getting updated feeds for specific posts w/ 2007 Office products, they are making a wrong decision.

    Comment by Toby Getsch — July 10, 2006 @ 1:59 pm PST

  2. I’ve tried to shore up any confusion with this post here: http://blogs.msdn.com/michael_affronti/archive/2006/07/10/661670.aspx. Please give it a read. Thanks for your feedback!

    Comment by Michael Affronti — July 10, 2006 @ 6:01 pm PST

  3. Also, to be clear, we would have seen your updated text. :)

    Comment by Michael Affronti — July 10, 2006 @ 6:02 pm PST

  4. Michael - this still isn’t good: “If it does, meaning the user has not deleted the item, then we will automatically update the content of the old post with the new content from the feed. If the user has deleted the item then we will not download a new item to replace.

    So if the user reads and then deletes the item, they still won’t get the future updates, so what you said in #3 has an if statement attached to it.

    Why you guys have to try and reinvent the wheel is beyond me. If it’s updated and changed it is not a “duplicate” and just because somebody deleted it might mean they simply wanted to get it out of the way, not that they didn’t want to know when new content was available.

    Comment by TDavid — July 10, 2006 @ 6:54 pm PST

  5. TDavid:

    Michael’s post (http://blogs.msdn.com/michael_affronti/archive/2006/07/10/661670.aspx) clearly shows this option available, which makes answers your comment. “If you don’t like this delete model where removing a post from Outlook ignores all further updates on that individual item, there is an option to disable it. Toggling this option causes deletes to be non-destructive, and in the above scenario the user would see a new item downloaded for post B1 even though he deleted the original item in Outlook.”

    Thanks for clearing it up Michael, and for quickly responding to this blog feedback!

    Comment by Toby Getsch — July 10, 2006 @ 8:11 pm PST

  6. Toby - it’s still dependent on the user not deleting unless they turn it off. Will this be a buried option? Sounds like this will be the default option and that’s not good. Yeah, it’s good that the user can turn this off, but from a publisher standpoint this is an irritating function.

    I appreciate Michael adding his clarifying post (and it was updated above earlier) but this isn’t a good way to deal with duplicate posts.

    Comment by TDavid — July 10, 2006 @ 8:23 pm PST

  7. TDavid:

    I think I agree with you, and posted a comment on Michael’s post saying that I think the default should be the “non-destructive” option, rather than having to find that option and toggle it on.

    Comment by Toby Getsch — July 10, 2006 @ 8:31 pm PST

  8. […] michael affronti | microsoft outlook program managerDupes part deuxhttp://blogs.msdn.com/michael_affronti/archive/2006/07/10/661670.aspxThings that… make you go hmmIll-advised RSS duplicate post solution in IE7 and Outlook 2007http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20060710/3556/ […]

    Pingback by [tweblog.com] - Toby Getsch » Blog Archive » Handling RSS duplicates in Outlook 2007 - some conversation — July 10, 2006 @ 8:40 pm PST

  9. […] By the by, here’s what T has to say: This is a good example of RSS aggregator developers attempting to fix a legitimate issue by doing readers an unintentional disservice. They are trying to keep duplicate posts from appearing in the aggregator which is a good thing, dupes most definitely suck, but their solution forgets about the many types of posts with updates. […]

    Pingback by » Microsoft Response To Outlook RSS Design  InsideMicrosoft - part of the Blog News Channel — July 12, 2006 @ 9:10 am PST


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