Another sweatshop blog network emerges |
(1 votes, average: 4 out of 5)
Loading ...These blogging networks are great — for the owners. These guys should have called this B.0 Media instead of b5media.
How many gullible, desperate writers are there out there that will take sweatshop work rates, just to be part of something? Sort of reminds me of all those social networking sites, er busts, that have cropped up and never really gone anywhere.
Here’s an idea fellow writers: start your own blog! If your writing is good enough, and you work hard enough, you can and will build a following. Then you can keep not 5% or 25% or 50%, but 100% of the revenue instead of sharing it with some consortium of blog owners. In fact, if you really work hard, someday you’ll have enough traffic and money to pay other writers a decent rate to help you (if you want to expand like that, anyway). Or maybe pay them a not-so-decent rate. Whichever you prefer.
Now I’m not calling Duncan Riley, Darren Rowse and Jeremy Wright, etc greedy, sinister or evil. Heck no, I think they see a market and are trying to make money from it and I applaud their entry to the field. They seem like decent gents, are all good writers, but wake up people, they aren’t creating a blog network for writers! If they were, then they would cut a deal with writers that gives them 100% — after hosting and design expenses — of all the money earned from their blog posts and on top of that pay a decent per-word rate that is on par with what professional writers are paid for adding traffic and content to the mother ship.
Wondering what that is? Figure on .05-.10 per word being the pitch, but you might be able to get $.25 - $1.00+ per word for a major publication, but not any blogs, no way. No blog network on the planet will offer you $1+ USD per word right now for any sort of long term deal. Why? Because they want to keep that jack for themselves, er I mean, the network. It all goes back into the network, you know.
Sure it does.
Fellow writers: you do realize it’s the mother ship that gains the most from a network setup, don’t you?
The flippant response will be that $1+ per word is not a sustainable business model and waaa, it can’t be done. And then comes: “but the writers that make up this new network are primarily non-professional writers, these are every day people and new writers so they need someone to take them under their wing.”
Take them under their wing, alrighty, like chicken wing poised beneath an unsated mouth.
Seriously, that is a good idea for a blogger right there. Start a blog, taking new writers under their wing. Teaching about different ways to present topics. As for the mechanics of writing, all any writer ever needs is The Elements of Style. Omit needless words! Omit needless words!
Omit needless networks! Omit needless networks!
I’ll give B.O Media credit for their honesty. It’s not like they are hiding the fact that they can’t pay real writers what real writers get paid — which still isn’t much, BTW.
See what Duncan admits here:
I recently advertised a position and copped a bit of flack from some people who are suggesting that the pay isn’t good enough. I want to tackle this one straight away: its not the highest in the industry, but we also aren’t the toughest in terms of restrictions as well. Over time I believe the hybrid compensation structure will prove worthwhile.Writing for b5media isn’t just about the money, its about the experience as well.
What a load of crap, Duncan. It is all about the money for the owners, and “also” about experience for everybody else. And that will be the target market of writers chosen by this b5media group because anybody that writes worth a damn and knows something about webmastering can make 100% of the traffic and money blogging. Why do they need you?
The traffic, yeah, the traffic. That’s the next big pitch. More traffic, more readers from a network push. Yes, this one of the few truths of a blog network. Yes, it’s hard for anybody that isn’t already an expert or celebrity in a field to start their first blog and build up their traffic, but it gets easier with their second blog. And third. And so on. It’s like building websites or writing that first novel. The first one is always the hardest.
There was a nanosecond in my writing career, if you will, when I was very, very young where I foolishly believed there was fame and fortune in the writing field. Then the dream was lost. You know how most writers are dreamers, right? The dream was replaced by the harsh reality that the average book advance is barely the poverty scale and that the vast majority of professional writers barely pay back the advance. King, Koontz, Steele, those are but pebbles in the sea of writers that actually do enjoy fame and fortune. Most writers — artists, in fact — have to find real jobs in the real world to support their dreams.
I’m thoroughly grounded now.
Back to my point of why joining a network is the perfect crutch for the beginning and/or lazy skilled writer. Blog networks continue the pattern of exploitation joined in the professional writing juggernaut, instead of encouraging the writer to break free from it and carve out their own niche and business. Creating their own reader/subscriber base and income opportunities that the wealth of the web offers.
Fellow writers: if you really are a dreamer, then make your dream come true. Be creative. Use your writing and thinking skills to come up with a blog topic/idea that hasn’t been pummeled to death and then work the hell out of the content to make it the best of its kind.
The truth is that I feel guilty almost every time I visit or link to WIN or Gawker-based blogs because I know those writers are being paid below minimum wage. It’s like buying and wearing a well known sports shoe. But I’m doing the same thing when I buy a book from a garage sale or used book store that didn’t sell very well when it was first published.
Torn.
I strongly believe in capitalism and don’t begrudge those who want to start a competing network like the b5media guys are doing. Although I think they are going to have a tough go at it unless they do pron or tabloid content like Gawker or find some really talented writers who care more about the craft than making a decent living wage (WIN). Heck, the writing profession continues to prove that these people exist. The blogosphere is ripe with beginning and/or unskilled writers and god bless them all for making a genuine effort.
Someone should start a network of exploited bloggers. Sort of like exploited children, but with a national crisis line: 1-800-bend-ovr.
Most of the skilled writers that have joined networks could have made it on their own without the backing of any network. A network is nothing without many hard working writers and readers. For without these ingredients there is nobody to share the advertising soup. The network benefits writers who are not webmasters, who don’t understand how to make money on their own.
The truth of the matter is that there are a lot of webmasters who don’t understand how to make money on the web, too. So, a network offers these people a chance to earn something instead of almost nothing.
Recently, I read a well-linked, established blogger — who is also a published author — complaining about how she had only made a few dollars in six months with Google Adsense. A few dollars? That’s crazy! I wrote back inquiring why she didn’t read up or study how to better place her Adsense ads? Her response was that she didn’t have the time.
Didn’t have the time.
Now that’s the type of blogger that is great for a network. Doesn’t have time to learn how to properly market a website, is a published author, but has plenty of time to write.
I don’t begrudge anybody spending time working on their content, polishing their words, but let’s be real: you are polishing turds if you aren’t making any money from your efforts. If it’s a hobbyist blog, then don’t show any ads and don’t take any donations. I have a couple of blogs like that. I use them to sharpen the stone. They aren’t meant to be money makers. They are meant for experiments, demos, tests, etc.
Now comes the part where I admit to being a hypocrite.
If b5media turns out good content I’ll be there and be linking. Heck, I already am in this post. I’ll contribute to the sweatshop on that front, just as I’ve done with WIN and Gawker and whatever other quality networks exist currently or seek to exist in the future. I guess there is also 9rules (note the use of the lowercase “r”), too, and their model from what little I’ve reviewed seems to involve simply linking up existing quality blogs(?) If they are leaving the financial structure and ownership of the existing blog then that sounds like one of the most promising blog networks — for writers — to date.
Fellow writers that “hate all that f**kin business shit” as Ozzy Osbourne would say, just throw up the white flag and join a network. If your writing is any good, I’m sure I’ll read you, and maybe even click on and buy from the ads beside your content.
Too bad it will primarily benefit the network owners, not you.
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Hey T,
You know writing like this is why I choose out of millions of Blogs that I muse over, to continue to read yours.
Great topic, lets hear one for the Journalists’, some still love to tell a story with truth and honesty in the writing.
Anthony
Comment by Anthony — September 21, 2005 @ 11:45 am PST
And thus, that’s why I don’t stick ads on LUX, nor I don’t join conglomerations (aggregators) for money. LUX will always be an “experience” blog and if people don’t like it, then tough. I never saw the point of people trying to make money off their blogs anyways. It is rarely possible unless you get as large as BoingBoing, and even then, what are the chances? It’s like some small town paper trying to become the NY Times.
Like you said… only the networks win, and even then, there are many that can’t get off the ground.
Comment by darkmoon — September 21, 2005 @ 12:45 pm PST
Hey mate, I can just nod along with this. I don’t agree with all of it, but in some ways I do. I’ve forwarded this to the internal mailing list (which includes the bloggers) to see what they think.
There’s definitely room for improvement, and learning, in the model. I don’t think it’s perfect, but I do know that so far everyone’s having fun, which is key. For too many in too many online ventures, the fun somehow dies, and we never want to see that happen to b5.
Comment by Jeremy Wright — September 21, 2005 @ 1:03 pm PST
Anthony - Thank you for reading and the support.
darkmoon - interesting. So you don’t think any blogs should make money? Can’t say I agree there, if that’s your perspective. Put up some contextual ads on your blog. You *deserve* to get paid for your work. There’s enough writer rape going on out there, mon
Comment by TDavid — September 21, 2005 @ 1:05 pm PST
Hey T,
Loved the entry simply because it mirrors the whole philosophy behind the 9rules Network. We were all bloggers doing fine on our own, but wanted to help other independents out as well so we decided to form the Network. We don’t keep the content, we don’t keep the sites and any money that they receive on their own they keep. We do make money however, if we find a sponsor for their site. Consider it a finder’s fee and it is up to the owner of the site if they want that company to sponsor them. We only win if our content producers win.
Many people feel that we have given too much power to the writers, but we feel that this was the only way to do it because we would want to keep our hard work to ourselves if we were in their situations (heck, we are in their situations). We help connect the owners to other bloggers, bloggers to readers, and bloggers to sponsors (if they want them).
In defense of b5media and the rest, their model is definitely the easiest way to make money so I don’t blame them for taking that approach. As for the people who write for those networks, they are just looking for some guaranteed money so I can’t blame them for that either.
As for the blogger who didn’t have time for Adsense, our model is perfect for her because we would provide support in helping her place her ads and whatnot and look for other streams of revenue if she was so interested.
If you would like to talk more about this, don’t hesitate to shoot me an email. This is my first time to your site and I have only read a couple of entries, but I really like what I am seeing.
Comment by Scrivs — September 21, 2005 @ 1:17 pm PST
T - Naw. It’s not that I don’t think blogs should make money. If you can, then great. When I started LUX, I made a commitment that it would be for others and not myself and personally I hate looking at ads since it takes away from the feel of a page. I’d love to have the readership that you have, but at least my readers know that I have nothing to gain from my blog except my bitching about “whatever the topic at hand” is.
My deal is that there are “many” networks out there and they ALL try to tell bloggers that we’ll provide you some percent of the proceeds. All of them ad networks primarily when you get right down to it. Just like when we both got on Dan Gillmor that one time for pushing that one ad network.
I’m not saying that it can’t be done, but anyone that wants to supplement their incomes with a blogging income better think long and hard because unless they have the type of readership as yourself, or Ed Cone, or Dave Winer, the likelihood of gaining any money is very minimal. I think it’s just a pipe dream that anyone can to write and get paid for it, but for myself, I just want to read people such as yourself and learn and grow my writing skills. Or my bitching skills, whichever you think. *laugh*
Comment by darkmoon — September 21, 2005 @ 1:40 pm PST
I’m one of the sweatshop workers. Until I make as much money as Darren, Duncan, and Jeremy I can only learn more from them. The daily personalized coaching from them is worth two posts per day from me.
Comment by Tim — September 21, 2005 @ 1:46 pm PST
T,
Excellent writing, excellent content, very to the point, and very well balanced. Yours is the zen of writing. But consider this for a moment: 4 years of being out of full-time work has turned me into a bitter, belligerent curmudgeon. I became a full-time writer 3 yrs ago when programming contracts dried up. But I’ve only sold one book; my publisher - a big name - went bust. I tried to sell a few articles on jewelry-making of all things, but after initial positive response, I was told the sections were cut. Now, I do a trickle of consulting and I work for peanuts part-time as a cook, all the while hoping my blogs and technical e-books and internet consulting will take off. I can’t explain why someone with as much writing and programming experience as me can’t get a job - it’s too complicated to get into.
But suffice it to say, it tears me up to see the rates that many of the networks are offering. Yes, print pays better, but after the sad events of a few years ago, many magazines and publishers went bust. The editors lost their jobs and became freelance writers again. Tons of competition, that’s for sure. I just wrote a post about being sure whether you’re keeping your copyrights (as per the United Nations Berne Convention held in Berne, Switzerland in 1972), or if you are doing a work-for-hire. So it’s a damn tough decision: blog for low rates AND you get to give up the copyright? Or starve? At least when you do a work-for-hire writing for a corporation, they pay you well. But if you just can’t find those generous sources, what’s left while you are doing the SEO on your blog, hoping the adrev comes in soon?
I think, unfortunately, that as long as there are human beings, there will be writers. And as long as there are writers, some - maybe many - will be willing to bend over just for the slightest glimmer of fame. Nevertheless, thank you for such a balanced posting. I wish my posts were half as open-minded
raj
Comment by Raj — September 21, 2005 @ 4:49 pm PST
Scrivs — Thanks for the additional information about 9rules. Heck, I’d be willing to extend that same deal to *anybody* (readers, other bloggers, ad reps, etc) who successfully broker an ad deal for this blog (succesfully meaning we say “yes” to the deal). If you have connections to some good company/product/service desiring additional exposure and would like a commission feel free to contact me with the details. My skype and office telephone number is listed on the home page.
With that said, we won’t — and don’t — accept just any advertiser or advertising program (in the case of contextual ads), though, even if the deal is irresistable financially. For example, we turned down the reputable Feedster Media Network after finding out how their RSS ad system actually worked. If they make the changes recommended and requested, we’ll happily start running their program in the RSS feeds either here or on other blogs.
I think it’s only fair paying a commission to a broker or somebody who helps to broker a deal but it all depends on the product/service/company being advertised and the terms including how readers ultimately will be treated by the arrangement as to whether we can accept or not. Though nobody pays us to be here reading in dollars, they do pay with something they can never get back: their time. I feel a personal and professional obligation not to abuse reader’s time with a bunch of crappy ads for lame things and I will not subscribe or read blogs that treat my time with similar disregard. My partner and I weigh these things very carefully.
darkmoon - Thanks for the clarification, it helps me see where you’re coming from better. Because one might have advertising or not doesn’t neccessarily indicate his/her opinion is for sale which I believe is something we would both agree on, yes/no? Space on this website might be for sale, but whether or not I like and/or see usefulness in the product/service is not for sale. That’s your trust as a reader that I risk violating and I can’t risk that if I want to keep you subscribed.
Tim - If they are providing personalized coaching (beyond basic training) as part of their service in exchange for paying you less then that’s a barter deal and definitely brings more value to their network. My piece above doesn’t specifically bring into account training and tutoring, although that might be a good part to add to the hosting and design expenses. Thanks for pointing out this important omission.
Raj - wow, great comments there. I have a bunch of thoughts on that but I have to run to a workout right now, so I may save these thoughts for a future blog entry. Thanks for taking time to comment.
Comment by TDavid — September 21, 2005 @ 5:21 pm PST
T,
the frame of mind i had when i joined b5 wasn’t revolving around money. in fact it had more to do with learning from jeremy, darren and duncan as well as from the other staff bloggers. i would like to refer to b5media as part of my “personal development plan.” that’s something you cannot quantify to cash.
but yes, you do have very valid points. i dont think it is a “fault” (if you call it that) of b5 to be like this. its just how things end up becoming sustainable. but hey, all in all im enjoying it. be reading you often.
Comment by jayvee f. — September 21, 2005 @ 8:26 pm PST
T - Exactly. I’m not saying that the people’s opinions are for sale. All I’m saying is that a lot of people think they can turn their opinions into a business, and while that might be true, for every 1 blog that does make money, I’m sure 100 others do not. Webspace can definitely for sale.
I guess my thing is that: Don’t do this if you’re looking to replace your job, unless you do gain the readership. And remember that the odds are, you will only get pennies for every ad you place on your blog versus that A-list guy that can make $40k a year on advertisements alone and really the networks are the ones that win if you are the $40k guy. As long as the realization is there, then go and run ads all you want.
Hope that came out clear. I tend to ramble.
Comment by darkmoon — September 21, 2005 @ 8:40 pm PST
[…] Here are a couple of the more ‘lively’ debates that I saw yesterday, at makeyougohmm.com and throughout the comments of this Threadwatch post. Part of the debate that I see here and have seen in other discussions is invariably about the quality of the contracts and compensation. […]
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Pingback by Blog Marketing, Blog Promotion for Newbies » Blog Archive » You Can Get Paid To Blog! — September 22, 2005 @ 11:23 am PST
blog network envy?
Comment by redd — September 22, 2005 @ 5:09 pm PST
jayvee - thanks for stopping by, there is definitely inherent value in the advanced training (I think basic training should be included and not part of the basic compensation) you can receive from other bloggers over time and that definitely has to be quantified as part of the compensation package. Best of luck on that cellphone9 blog of yours
I’m not much of a cell phone person (despite having a couple of them) but I do like the hands-free OnStar system which hooks in through our Verizon account. I wrote about that in detail in the archives somewhere if you are wondering more about how that works (or maybe you already know).
Hi Jeremy - I somehow skipped you by in the comments above and that wasn’t intentional, btw. Hello
Thanks for sharing, too bad that I will be exempt from reading the internal list discussion back and forth, but maybe you can get permission to send me or post an abridged version of the discussion someday for those who don’t make it here or trackback in from their blogs to share their opinions. I may appear to be very close-minded on this, but I’m still very much willing to listen to points of view that might enlighten me on the subject. Yes, even if they disagree with me very passionately.
Hopefully if/when then they’ll do as jayvee did above and stop on by and leave a link to the blog they are writing for in their sig space. No rel=nofollow is in play here. If she didn’t do that on her own, then whomever showed her that has already gotten her off to a good start.
Comment by TDavid — September 22, 2005 @ 6:05 pm PST
Uh oh. I just read your comments to jayvee, T… and I actually went to B5Media’s Cellphone9. Is it just me or does that look AWFULLY similar to the WeblogsInc setup. I had to pull up Engadget just to make sure that it wasn’t the exact same one.
While the templates aren’t exact, I’d be curious to see if Calacanis gets annoyed.
Comment by darkmoon — September 22, 2005 @ 7:36 pm PST
darkmoon: 3 column layout, ad unit on top… That’s about the only thing in common that I can see
Comment by Jeremy Wright — September 22, 2005 @ 8:01 pm PST
darkmoon, check out the new template
Comment by jayvee f. — September 22, 2005 @ 8:02 pm PST
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Pingback by Blog Networks: Are They Right For You? : Internet Home Business :: HomeOfficeVoice — September 27, 2005 @ 11:02 am PST
TD - You make some very vaild points in this post but I think you’re being a little harsh on the people who choose to write for networks. Yes, writers are dreamers and perhaps that’s the very reason these networks appeal to us. Freelancing is damn hard work and I can’t always write about what truly interests me, I must write about things that will pay the bills. I don’t consider writing for a network to be selling out as much as it is a chance to indulge my passions and interests. Since my passion won’t pay the bills, I’ll take the chance to “sharpen my stone” at a network and if it happens to earn me a buck, so much the better. If not, at least I got what I had to say out of my system at a site that other like minds would be reading.
Geez…where did all that come from? I don’t even write for a network. Yet.
Comment by Lisa — September 28, 2005 @ 4:37 pm PST
Hi Lisa - thanks for taking time to leave a comment. I see your point and agree that I might have been a little harsh on the writers themselves. Editors can be harsh on writers too. It’s a tough get going approach with writers, unfortunately, sometimes. It’s not an easy profession by any stretch.
Money is money and many of us have had to do work at below living wage (ok, maybe not those with silver spoons in their mouths), I was more trying to make a point that I believe in good writing and good writers and think with a little webmaster skill they can make more $$$ than they will make from this particular type of network deal, but I can see why some may not want to try that route.
I also understand that some writers have no interest in the marketing side of their writing — they just want to write. In that case, a network could provide them exposure they may not be able to (easily) generate on their own. I didn’t intend to say that networks, b5media or any other are *all* bad for writers.
If you join one of these networks, please let us know how it goes
Comment by TDavid — September 28, 2005 @ 5:24 pm PST
[…] Last week I slammed on blogging networks pretty hard as being writer exploitation primarily due to their low pay, but there are clearly exceptions to the rule like this one. This blog under network seem to be offering opportunities and expansion well beyond the mother ship. If a writer could join one of these networks and grow their time and energy into something like this, well that’s a pretty darn good gig for both parties, not only the network owner(s). Also, I’m guessing the pay is significantly better for this gig than the typical deals these networks employ. Somebody in the know please correct me in the comments if I’m wrong. […]
Pingback by Make You Go Hmm: » Engadget expanding, adding labs starting Oct 15 — September 30, 2005 @ 11:18 am PST
I think the other thing here, with something like b5media and the volume of blogging they want authors to do, is that the content is bound to be quickly written and of poor quality. Maybe not at first, but after a certain period of time.
Comment by James — October 3, 2005 @ 12:16 pm PST
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Networks’ obligations also extend to the readers don’t you think? Should they for example provide at least some sort of editorial oversight? Do the readers expect network blogs to at least have gone through the hands of a proofreader perhaps? So maybe the network gets what they’re paying for; some of the blogs in one memorable network are so badly presented it’s really kind of sad.
Comment by Susan Reynolds — July 13, 2006 @ 11:34 am PST
[…] Several times during the interview a past post here at Hmm is referenced entitled: Another sweatshop blog network emerges which you might want to read first before listening to this interview. That post was written September 21, 2005. […]
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