The “Inside” on podcasting: show me da money! |
Loading ...Matt May, who lives here in Seattle, works for the W3C and does the Staccato podcast has laid the smackdown over the “insider” talk that Dave Winer and Scoble recently tossed back and forth:
Winer talking to Robert Scoble about “insiders” still has me tickled. Who better to talk about them? Winer is the ultimate insider. He’s been in nearly all of the hundreds of mainstream media articles about podcasting – and moans incessantly about it when he’s left out. He has the phone number of anyone (he thinks is) worth talking to in podcasting. When he issues a command from the Holy See of Scripting News, and finds that it has not been done his way, whoever is responsible will find their Winer Number reduced in due time. He has his favorites, and his favorite villains, and makes good use of both lists when it suits him.
With a blog name like Best Kung Fu I think a karate chop was just heard round the ’sphere!
Admittedly, I skimmed through that “insider” stuff with lukewarm interest. There are cliques for everything and podcasting is currently and will continue to be no exception. In particular, I’m reminded of how certain podcasts have been categorized as “pioneers” in the podcasting space, which intentionally highlights and segregates this group over the other podcasters. I’ve always found this type of elitism troubling, plus as Matt mentions practically every mainstream article picks up on mostly the same group of podcasts ad nauseum. It’s like the other hundreds of podcasts (now over 2,000, I think) exist only as the herd to be bandied about and boasted by others as a sign of immense podcasting progress and success.
Dawn and Drew (DND), the modern couple from Wayne Wisconsin, have been made out by the press to be the poster couple for “this is what podcasting is all about” and I’m not sure a couple faking sex on their show and talking frank about married life represents the pinnacle of podcasting. Some of what DND do is funny and those of us who are married can definitely relate, but then again the Osbournes were funny in their first season and look what happened to their show? Unfortunately, I think the DND shelf life will be about the same, but I do hope I’m wrong on this because DND seem like a very likeable, down to earth couple, and it would be cool to see great financial success for regular people like them. I don’t know how much money they are making from all the publicity they’ve received but I have a suspicion that it’s far, far less than most people think.
Now that’s an issue — money — that should continue to be discussed, and at a considerably louder volume than this “insider” crap.
Money seems to be the one thing that the podcasting space lacks. Who is making any money?
That’s the question that should continue to be asked. IT Conversations? Arguably one of, if not the best produced, highest quality podcasts out there … but are they making any money yet? Haven’t heard much since this. And how about Dawn & Drew? They’ve had a few advertisements, but it seems like most their revenue is based on listener donations and that’s a tough model to make work. The Podcast Network? The guys from down under are new, exciting and promising, but I haven’t read much talking about their profitability … yet. Eric Rice just landed a Warner Bros. advertising gig so he’s probably making a few bones. Webtalk was profitable before getting into podcasting but Rob, too, has had his concerns about the medium from a business angle. I’m sure there’s dozens more that I’m not mentioning who are making some money, but who is making enough money to continue to prosper, innovate and grow?
I know that Winer foams at the mouth over podcasting prostitution, but the reality is that without some sort of business model very, very few people will do podcasting for any length of time. Sure, some will do it “for fun” for a little while, just as some keep blogs because it’s their chance to share with people. Some people aren’t about the money, I get that. I realize these folks exist and God bless ‘em for their passion and contributions but if at least some people don’t do podcasting to enhance/grow their business and actually do that, then what will this ultimately mean for podcasting longevity? This seems to have been the crux of the issue that separated Curry and Winer, though it never really was explained in any detail that I read anywhere.
Should podcasting become the abortion that is the vast majority of commercial radio these days? No, I’m not saying that. I am saying that hopefully those who view podcasting from a business standpoint try and learn something from the mistakes commercial radio has made and to embrace its financial successes.
What Matt May is doing with independent artists, is important, noteworthy and potentially very far-reaching and could very well have a financial impact for up and coming independent artists. I’ve spoken to him and told him this in person and I really like it.
In closing, I really hope all this “insider” stuff switches back to the central issue which is securing a viable podcasting business model while there still is some steam in the engines. Bloggers have found ways to make money and podcasters need to do the same. Sure, there can be hobbyist podcasts, but there must be business-oriented and focused, profit-generating podcasts as well.
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- Still looking to monetize IT Conversations
TDavid,
Good stuff, as always. A lot of good points, particularly on the DND topic.
Comment by Matt Wardlaw — March 23, 2005 @ 12:42 pm PST
Holy crap. We started The Podcast Network exactly 5 weeks ago and you’re asking us if we are profitable yet??? What other businesses are subjected to such demands??? But hey, we love the fact that you are paying attention and keeping us honest.
We’ve got sponsors lining up to advertise on the show. But quite frankly, our cost base is close to zero, apart from our time and effort, so… we’re paying most attention to building a list of entertaining and informative shows, getting rids of some of the chinks in the backend, streamlining our ability to post-produce shows, raising some venture capital, etc. The sponsors will still be there next week and next month. We’re laying the foundations of a solid business. Profit is an important metric but something that can wait a couple of months. Content comes first.
As for Winer, et al and the “insiders”. God love ‘em. But who gives a shit? Let’s just build content. We’re changing the world here, please GOD let’s not get weighed down in politics and crap like that. Let’s just capture interesting and challenging conversations and make the public.
Comment by Cameron Reilly — March 23, 2005 @ 7:40 pm PST
Cameron - Actually I put your network there so that you weren’t completely left out of the commentary, not really as a matter of condemnation … yet (notice the “…yet” part?). If I had left you out then you probably would have thought? Hmm, does the guy realize that we are here?
I agree that a business needs some time to ramp up and turn a profit but the podcasting space itself is only what, six months old? So days are months and months are years by this clock and I’m simply wondering if there are examples of anybody in this timeframe that has made any significant money from their efforts.
Still, I’m surprised to read you saying that your costs are “almost zero.” Where are you getting all this free bandwidth from? Our little show that we have been podcasting since September/October 2004 is tearing through the bandwidth so I have to think your network is burning at least some bandwidth, I mean, especially if it’s traffic at the levels of attracting advertisers.
And yeah, I know, bandwidth isn’t that expensive, but it sure adds up when you aren’t making any money from the podcast!
Take care.
Comment by TDavid — March 23, 2005 @ 8:08 pm PST
T (can I call you ‘T’ or is that too informal?), sorry if my previous comment came across as hard edged, it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. I realize it wasn’t condemnation. And I’m glad you thought to mention us. Our bandwidth costs are well under control and part of a broad hosting deal we negotiated recently. That’s one of the benefits our hosts get from being part of a consolidated network. But it is “almost zero”. We’d be paying out money for server space and hosting anyway, we’re geeks. And when you look at what we are doing… building a global media company… then the costs we are facing are a joke. I can afford to fund the business as it currently stands out of my pocket change for at least a year. (Don’t tell my wife I said that!). We’ve been talking to many people from advertising and publishing in the last couple of months about our business model and while we’ve heard different projections about what we will be able to charge for advertising and how long it will take to attract big names, everyone agrees that the model is sound and will make money so… watch this space I guess.
Comment by Cameron Reilly — March 23, 2005 @ 8:27 pm PST
“T” is fine … or “TD” or “TDavid” … just don’t call me Shirley!
Sounds like you have a plan working which is always good. Best of luck to you. Hey, how is that sports show coming along? It’s almost baseball season.
Comment by TDavid — March 23, 2005 @ 8:33 pm PST
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